Chinese Medicine produces a faster, better result than WM?

[DeusTrismegistus]

Honestly there is so much BS in western medicine it makes me cringe. There has never been any proof that eating fat causes obesity, yet that is the party line. There has never been proof that cholesterol causes atherosclerosis yet that is the party line. In trials they report a change from a 1% chance of death from a specific cause to a .5% chance of dying as a 50% reduction in your risk! Which it is, relative risk, for a single cause, and often total mortality stays the same or sometimes increases not to mention side effects that effect quality of life. Oh how about polyunsaturated fats being promoted as healthy fats and saturated fats being associated with unhealthy while polyunsaturated fats are associated with increased cancer and saturated fat is associated with, increased cholesterol, which causes heart disease, even though it never been proven. Or how about science saying the appendix is vestigial only to find out this year it does have a purpose. How about doctors prescribing painkillers that are highly addictive and damage the liver over time. Lets not forget the antidepressants that increase suicidal tendencies. Vitamin D, recommended at 2000 ius a day where a body that is exposed to 30 minutes to and hour of sun (with 95% of the skin exposed) wil produce 20,000 ius of vitamin D. Guess what the body uses to create vitamin D, CHOLESTEROL! 2000 iu/day will only give a serum D level of 20 nmol/L which still shows insufficiency of the calcium dependent pathways in the body. Yet 2k ius is the recommended daily allowance. Also even though vitamin D levels of 55 nmol/L are associated with the lowest incidence of cancer and need around 10,000 ius/day which is next to impossible to obtain from food sources but easily obtained from sunlight, sunlight is BAD for you! Oh yes lets ignore that a very large number of skin cancers occur in places that get little to no sun like the bottom of the feet.

There is a lot of good stuff in western medicine and western science. However there is a lot of BS too. A study that gets several different diagnosis and treatments from the same person and declares TCM is erroneous because it is ignoring the most important part of medicine, does the treatment help? The idea of qi is a paradigm that is verified experimentally. When the experiments that clear the stagnation result in positive results it reinforces the paradigm. Does it really matter if the paradigm does not mesh with western scientific understanding? A barrier in the very way the cultures think about problems and solutions stands in the way of verification. Honestly how do you give placebo needles? You can't put it in a double blind because the doctor would know if he was using placebo needles or not.

There is an important thing to remember when trying to condemn TCM and alternative medicine as quackery. Its been getting more and more popular in the US and the West. If it wasn't helping people that wouldn't be true. Someone is helped and there EXPERIENCE is what leads them to recommend others to try it, and it grows. The very fact that it is growing shows it is working. I don't care how as long as I get better, most people don't care how those pills work as long as it makes them better. If two paradigms produce positive results what right does one have to say that the other is wrong?

[Doc Stier]

Burns and copious smoke from moxibustion treatment is totally avoidable by using a smokeless moxa roll, aka: a moxa 'cigar', instead of the traditional method of employing heat applications to the treatment site with bulk mugwort leaf moxa placed directly on the skin surface, without a perforated slice of fresh ginger root or a base of salt to support the moxa ball, or when attached to special moxa needles, which risk having the burning moxa ball fall off of the needle onto the skin surface due to movement of the patient's body.


Smokeless Moxa Roll


Moxibustion via a Needle


Mugwort Moxa on a base of Salt

Regardless of which moxibustion materials or techniques are used for treatment, it is imperative that the proper number of heat applications are not exceeded for the specific point being stimulated, and that each heat application is not continued beyond the sensation of feeling too hot.

[D_Glenn]

Honestly there is so much BS in western medicine it makes me cringe. There has never been any proof that eating fat causes obesity, yet that is the party line. There has never been proof that cholesterol causes atherosclerosis yet that is the party line. In trials they report a change from a 1% chance of death from a specific cause to a .5% chance of dying as a 50% reduction in your risk! Which it is, relative risk, for a single cause, and often total mortality stays the same or sometimes increases not to mention side effects that effect quality of life. Oh how about polyunsaturated fats being promoted as healthy fats and saturated fats being associated with unhealthy while polyunsaturated fats are associated with increased cancer and saturated fat is associated with, increased cholesterol, which causes heart disease, even though it never been proven. Or how about science saying the appendix is vestigial only to find out this year it does have a purpose. How about doctors prescribing painkillers that are highly addictive and damage the liver over time. Lets not forget the antidepressants that increase suicidal tendencies. Vitamin D, recommended at 2000 ius a day where a body that is exposed to 30 minutes to and hour of sun (with 95% of the skin exposed) wil produce 20,000 ius of vitamin D. Guess what the body uses to create vitamin D, CHOLESTEROL! 2000 iu/day will only give a serum D level of 20 nmol/L which still shows insufficiency of the calcium dependent pathways in the body. Yet 2k ius is the recommended daily allowance. Also even though vitamin D levels of 55 nmol/L are associated with the lowest incidence of cancer and need around 10,000 ius/day which is next to impossible to obtain from food sources but easily obtained from sunlight, sunlight is BAD for you! Oh yes lets ignore that a very large number of skin cancers occur in places that get little to no sun like the bottom of the feet.

There is a lot of good stuff in western medicine and western science. However there is a lot of BS too. A study that gets several different diagnosis and treatments from the same person and declares TCM is erroneous because it is ignoring the most important part of medicine, does the treatment help? The idea of qi is a paradigm that is verified experimentally. When the experiments that clear the stagnation result in positive results it reinforces the paradigm. Does it really matter if the paradigm does not mesh with western scientific understanding? A barrier in the very way the cultures think about problems and solutions stands in the way of verification. Honestly how do you give placebo needles? You can't put it in a double blind because the doctor would know if he was using placebo needles or not.

There is an important thing to remember when trying to condemn TCM and alternative medicine as quackery. Its been getting more and more popular in the US and the West. If it wasn't helping people that wouldn't be true. Someone is helped and there EXPERIENCE is what leads them to recommend others to try it, and it grows. The very fact that it is growing shows it is working. I don't care how as long as I get better, most people don't care how those pills work as long as it makes them better. If two paradigms produce positive results what right does one have to say that the other is wrong?

Cholesterol is in every cell in the body. Another vital function is it's the building block that's broken down into DHEA which is then either converted into testosterone or estrogen.

Western Medicine is a business whose customers are sick people. It's very difficult for business' to get a customer to come through the door for the first time, so any business knows it's more economical to ensure that you have repeat customers rather than continually seeking out new ones.

The gold mine is to scare people into taking Statin drugs and you will have a very sick customer for the rest of their now shorter and unhealthy life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statin

.

[Doc Stier]

Western Medicine is a business whose customers are sick people. It's very difficult for business' to get a customer to come through the door for the first time, so any business knows it's more economical to ensure that you have repeat customers rather than continually seeking out new ones.

This is very true. Primary healthcare providers will likely always see a steady influx of patients who present with acute illnesses or injuries for short term treatment, but the mainstay of most healthcare practices seems to be keeping patients on record with regular follow-up appointments for an indefinite period of time, regardless of the modality practiced.

Those providers who actually resolve their patient's chronic health conditions, which is in the patient's best interest both physically and financially, are constantly faced with the necessity of replacing these patients with new ones again and again through a steady stream of fresh referrals in order to maintain their 'business' and the income attendant to it. As such, it is in the healthcare provider's best interest not to resolve their patient's condition, even when they can and should do so!

The primary healthcare providers of every type who choose to use their knowledge and skill to actually heal their patient's in the shortest time possible, and with the least expense possible, are rare indeed!

Doc

[Darth Rock&Roll]

moxa can also be burned on top of a slice of ginger. I've seen two different docs do that now. It will still have effect and you will not receive the burn.

[yeniseri]

The complementary nature of 'TCM' is great! Both TCM and allopathic medicine have their good points but one has to know when and where to use both. As an example, an allopathic practitioner determines his patient has a heart problem and the extent of it is unknown but he does an EKG and verifies this with tracings. You take an equivalent person to 6 TCM practitioners and they all diagnose and come up with 5 different diagnoses! On the other hand, you have a sprain, go to a TCM practitioner and he gives you ditdajau and charges you USD$10.00. You go to an allopathic practitioner for the same sprain and he gives you x days of aspirin and charges you USD$40-60.

[Areios]

i realy like moxa helped with my knee a lot.

[wiesiek]

moxa can also be burned on top of a slice of ginger. I've seen two different docs do that now. It will still have effect and you will not receive the burn.

ginger is used for synergy with moxa not for burn prevention,
in fact
traditionally light burn is welcome
`cause it works like needlee inserted for a long time

[Doc Stier]

At least fifty different methods of moxibustion have been documented in the ancient literature on Chinese medical practices. Different materials used for moxibustion are referenced in these texts, as well as various shapes of moxa beads, balls, cones and rolls ('cigars'), various materials to be placed between the treatment point on the skin and the burning moxa (i.e. ginger, garlic, aconite, salt, etc.), the different temperatures produced by such variations, the specific number of moxa applications for individual energy points, and of course, which points are traditionally forbidden for moxibustion altogether.

Thus, there is considerably more knowledge and skill involved in correctly using the techniques of moxibustion than a randomly indiscriminate application of heat to a point.



Doc Stier, OMD

[Michael]

Sounds complicated, Doc. Might even take a person two weekend seminars to learn all that!

[Doc Stier]

Sounds complicated, Doc. Might even take a person two weekend seminars to learn all that!

No doubt. At the very least!

[wiesiek]

this is what i love,
no borders or limits in knowledge
always something more to learn

[Doc Stier]

http://www.yusacupunctureherb.com/Huang ... su_wen.pdf

[Peacedog]

xxxxxxxxxx

[Michael]

According to a research MD whose name escapes me, but I think he was from Georgetown, WM is only effective on 20% of complaints. I sort of think that's a high number, but maybe there are a lot of variations on in-grown toenails skewing the statistics.

Medial excision, cuticle separation, inpatient = 1 solved complaint
Medial excision, cuticle prolapse, outpatient = 1 solved complaint
Lateral, oblique incision, collapsing cuticle syndrome, hospice = 1 solved complaint