i must apologize in advance...

[fuga]

Bruce,

Here's a good read http://www.amazon.com/Against-Machine-Being-Human-Electronic/dp/0385522657 on the electronic mob.

Siegel, a controversial former NewRepublic.com blogger and past Slate.com art critic, provides a fascinating look at how the Internet is reshaping the way we think about ourselves and the world. Siegel explores how the Internet affects culture and social life, particularly the psychological, emotional and social cost of high-tech solitude. Arguing that the Internet's widespread anonymity eliminates boundaries, Siegel discusses the half-fantasy, half-realism of online personas. Internet pornography, Siegel intones, collapses public and private, transforming others into the instrument of the viewer's will. By experiencing virtual selves rather than other individuals, a danger arises: people run the risk of being reduced to personas that other Internet users manipulate toward their own ends. Insightful and well written with convincing evidence to support Siegel's polemic, this book is a welcome addition to the debate on the personal ramifications of living in a wired world. (Jan.)
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

-pete

[BruceP]

fwiw, if this kid were not disabled, I would diss him right to his face. after I found out he was disabled, I felt pretty shitty, and I def would not say it to his face.

So if you and a bunch of RSFers were sitting in the patio of a bistro having quiche and cocoa, and saw some kid in a park across the street doing his fake kung fu...badly, you'd all go across the street and diss his practice mob-style? Circle him and take turns quipping? Group chant him into shame & self-doubt? I'd like to see that. Get it on youtube and show us how it's done.

But seriously, there's gotta be a reason people would diss someone else's practice. Is it to crush the other person's passion and free expression? To put them in their place? So as to feel better about one's own 'skillz'? I don't get it.

Fong, you and I both have a standard by which we each measure our respective practices. Mine is showing the ideas in live action. Yours may be on the mat, and in that we share a common baseline in what we consider 'effective'. I think it lends a person passage to making derisive commentary on someone else's practice if they've shown their own work to be tested and proofed first. Not really my thing, but others might feel differently.

All I see when I watch clips is the passion and love for the practice that the person(s) has. Even Graham's clips (have you seen some of em?) get my repsect because he has a passion and love for what he's doing. Who the fuck am I to rip on his stuff? It wouldn't matter to me if he got tonged too hard at birth or if he was just some LARP dude playing in his own escapism. Disabled or not? What should it matter?

Now I'm gonna keystroke all freudian and say that when martial art clips are posted on the web they often show a person's vulnerabilities which may underly the content and subject matter, and that folks are drawn like sharks to those vulnerabilities. To me it looks like cooped chickens. They'll home in on a vulnerablity of one of their fellow coopsters and peck that chicken to death. You don't find that in free-range chickens so much.

I think it boils down to how secure we are in our own thing that we shouldn't act on impulse to put others beneath us...as tempting as that may be at times heh heh

best wishes,

Bruce

[Dmitri]

Graham's clips ... get my repsect

See, Graham? Write this down and stop whining already, dammit.
(That is assuming "repsect" didn't mean something other than "respect"... "repulsive sectility"? "repugnant sectioning"? "reptilian sectoring?" )

[GrahamB]

Yeah. But if I quit bitching what am I going to do with this persona I've created? I'll have nothing left!

[BruceP]

Pete, thanks. I'm not sure of what you meant to say by posting that. I didn't get it but I'm not that bright either. I had to look up 'polemic'

I don't think I've made the full transformation from human being yet, so it might be wasted on me.

[fuga]

Bruce,

I found it to be an interesting book that critically looks at how the internet shapes and encourages certain types of behaviors. Part of the book that resonated with me is how popularity (hits, page views, friends) is a measure of "success" on the internet. This popularity is gained by getting people to look at something, often a thing of no substance: videos of someone getting kicked in the nuts, a snarky top ten list, etc. Often these prompts for popularity are lowest common denominator or cruel cast as funny - stuck at a high school level of wanting to belong to the popular clique by doing something clownish or cruel, rather than the adult measures of self worth and belonging by presenting a true self rather than a persona.

I just thought you might be interested in reading it to get another view point on the actions of others online, including criticizing the videos of others and the mob behavior prevalent on internet forums. In a lot of ways, the book supports some of the ideas that you are talking about (not picking on people online, not ganging up on folks with radically different training ideas) and the idea of staying human and not becoming a persona or avatar.

And there is no shame in looking up words in a dictionary. I do it regularly and I make my living writing. My open dictionary is always within reach for me and my daughter.

-pete

[BruceP]

Ah! Thanks again, Pete. That does sound way too human. Nice review you posted just there. I might have to pick that up if I see it at the bookstore.

I appreciate that you're speaking on the act itself. That's all I wanted to address as well. Not judging anyone's person or character.

Much appreciated,

Bruce

[klonk]

I continue to applaud his interest. I would also remind you of an old fencing maxim, the best swordsman has no fear of the second best, he fears the worst. Don't look for that in your old Chinese sayings, it's old French.

How do you take control of the other blade, when the other man is not fully in control? So the clip is a little scary.

I would remind you that the star of the show asked for advice, knowing the need to broaden his knowledge, and anything he reads here would, I think, serve to his end. Get a teacher. Do the drills. Expect to be something less than Mushashi for at least a term of years.

Everyone is so theeensitve these days, theesh. Rub a little Been Gay on that hurtful will to point the finger, Shooter. Everything that has been said here is true. If it has to be nuanced further, why is that, exactly?

[BruceP]

- stuck at a high school level...

yup

[internalenthusiast]

"ha! if that kid finds a good teacher who can deal with the essentricities of Aspergers he will become good... real good, not fantasy good, the anyone who dises him can expect to be chop suey lol"

+1

sorry to quote myself...

i just wanted to say, that in spirit i agree completely with bruce/shooter. the reason (if one looks) that my previous (quoted) post was edited 14 times, is that i'd written, then edited a lot, a post in response to the thread. which i then changed to the above quoted post.

the original post (edited many times), which i've not copied/kept (so can't produce here), had to do with the fact that the gentleman in question has challenges he is meeting, and that if i was a relative or friend of the gentleman in question, i'd be very proud of him. i do believe that. and believe that sometimes peoples' progress is not measured at a given moment by results purely, but by the progress the person has made.

in this case, after looking up aspergers' syndrome on wiki (i hadn't known anything about the condition, or that the gentleman had that condition when i first viewed the clip) i was especially impressed by the progress the gentleman must have made. if i were his sister, i am sure i would be proud. and i think she is right. i would be too, if it were my brother or sister in question. and i'd hope that other people would be supportive of my sibling.

i changed my post for two reasons: first, i thought it was a bit of a rant, however gently stated. and i didn't want to make that kind of post. (i felt my reaction was a bit emotional.)

second, i felt that quoting mut's post might be a more economical and less intrusive way of indicating support. i may have been wrong about that. i dunno. if so the fault is mine.

these things are so tricky, IMO. some people are dealing with issues that mean their progress might be less than some other people under the same circumstances. on the other hand: if i compare myself to certain people i consider "geniuses"...well i have the same or similar handicap vis a vis those "geniuses." my progress might seem quite awkward or small to those who are so gifted.

anyway, maybe i should have let my original (many times edited to try to get it right) post stand. i don't know.

my bottom line feelings are: i support the gentleman in his learning, and support his sister. how could i not.

i think the important thing is the growth, however it is measured. and the gentleman in question, without question, seems to me to have grown a lot, i'd assume.

if i met him, i'd have nothing but good things to say about his progress...and i'd try to make sincere suggestions as to how he might continue in his growth...and hope that my suggestions might be good ones, and realistic.

a few years ago, there was a clip of a courageous wrestler who did not have any limbs. wow, what courage to enter the arena. if i remember, he actually did pretty well with the opponents he faced.
and he got pretty good response on eF/RSF.

i'm just coming down on the side of encouraging growth, as it's possible, for each of us. and respect for those who are trying.

very best to all...

PS: nice posts fuga...

[northern_mantis]

There is a book called 'Ultimate Guide to Tai Chi' or something like that which is a collection of articles from Inside Kung Fu.

When defining the various schools of tai chi (in terms of their purpose as opposed to style) they use the term 'Avent Garde' to define all the tree hugging free styling self-expressionists.

I thought it was a nice idea to give what these people do a definition in this way as they are a part of life especially as far as the internal arts are concerned.

[klonk]

I have been trying to understand why I find something creepy and vile in the direction this thread has taken. I mean Shooter shooting out the finger of blame, and any number then saying, yeah, yeah, you're right, we were insensitive, mea culpa.

High functioning Asperger's means normal or better intelligence, with a tendency to clumsiness and social disconnect. What was it called before it received, in recent times, the dignified title of a "syndrome"? We said "painfully shy" or "maladroit" or "overly focused" and let them go their merry ways. Sometimes the ''jerk' or 'klutz' or 'nerd' did astonishingly well in life.

If we were actually talking about a retarded person, I would share the general angst at anything said against him, but we aren't. If he puts himself out there enough to actually find a dojo, he might find himself feeling right at home there. Say what you will about JMA, they have a work ethic that is admirable. If you suck, go home, practice your kata and suck less next time. Just the thing for the task-focused individual, I would think.

What concerns me is that hanging a fashionable PC mental health label on a fat and clumsy kid, like it is some kind of excuse, might make him quit. It constitutes a huge reason not to press forward with your interests. That is a worse disservice, to him, than anything I can think of to say about his swordsmanship.

[internalenthusiast]

I have been trying to understand why I find something creepy and vile in the direction this thread has taken. I mean Shooter shooting out the finger of blame, and any number then saying, yeah, yeah, you're right, we were insensitive, mea culpa.

...

What concerns me is that hanging a fashionable PC mental health label on a fat and clumsy kid might make him quit. That would be worse disservice, to him, than anything I can think of to say about his swordsmanship.

fwiw, re: your first paragraph...that's not what i (at least myself personally) intended to communicate. i'd actually written my first post before shooter posted.

i found my first post hard to make, and so changed it. i wasn't happy with my first post, and not completely happy with my amended post. i think the reasons are: i'm not too comfortable with the thread itself (that's where i agree with shooter, if i understand him.) i did post, and then posted again, because something made me want to stick up for the young gent. and i try to follow that kind of intuition when i can.

re: the second paragraph...i agree...why discourage this gentleman, or anyone, from something that may be doing them good in life. even by labeling them "fat and clumsy."

i don't think he's doing anyone any harm, and may be doing himself and others good. in any case, i wish him well. that is what i should have communicated very simply, in so many words. i'm sure i'd feel the same if i met him.

[klonk]

re: the second paragraph...i agree...why discourage this gentleman, or anyone, from something that may be doing them good in life. even by labeling them "fat and clumsy."

At this point I would only add, if you tear every word out of the dictionary that might miff or offend someone, you don't have much book left!

What do you say instead of fat? Or clumsy? He would move better if he were taller for his weight? Narrower for his build? Please. Anyhow, his balance problems would be much mitigated if he had less to balance.

You know the politically correct way of referring to a bald man, I suppose. He has grown too tall for his hair.

Or wait, is it 'follicularly challenged'? Hard to keep straight what you're supposed to say instead of the truth.

[BruceP]

Where's all this PC crap coming from? If that's the spin you have to put on it you're just misdirecting from the real reason for my posting on this thread. Either that or you've failed to understand what it is I'm speaking out against.

This isn't my first protest, and what I'm saying on this thread is no different from what I've spoken for in the past.

Like I said, I'm not judging anyone, because that has nothing to do with my trying to understand the reason why somone would go out of their way to post a clip like that in the first place. The result has invariably been the same mobbing every time. I'm not 'blaming' anyone either. wtf is that all about?

As for your PC crap, disabled or not isn't the issue. Go back and read what I wrote to fong. When I speak of vulnerablities I'm referring to things like physical features and such - the person's body, hair, clothing, and any number of other 'ins' that offer an angle of attack. Like with chickens when they all focus on one attribute like a black feather that stands out - anything that is noticably different makes a cooped chicken vulnerable. With humans it's considered shallow and superficial and in a case like this it detracts from the content and subject matter - the merits of what is being shown. When people detract from the subject matter by drawing attention toward the demonstrator and away from what's being shown, it's sophomoric.

If you have a sense of culpability or whatever, that's your problem. It has nothing to do with what I posted.


My opinion is that it's cowardly and shallow to post someone's clip/pics (for entertainment?) and rip on them when they aren't here to speak for themselves. When the person is here to speak for himself, ripping on their clip(s) is just rude and disrespectful. Again, just my opinion.