Cheuk Fung on Yi Chuan

[nianfong]

this sort of video pretty much always belongs in BTDT. and those that know me know that I also call bullshit on this.

[Interloper]

That still doesn't explain why the students bounce away when Fung hasn't even touched them.

That, too is on my list of red flags.

[Muad'dib]

Ah, I didn't watch that far into the clip. After a while watching these clips can be quite boring after all...

[nianfong]

zhong kui, check the second clip, which is even more full of bullshit than the first.

[s7en]

Second clip, at 1:02

[gzregorz]

Those of you who think that what Master Fung is doing is bullshit ought to go to his school and challenge him if you have the balls.

Bear in mind that the hows and whats of this type of training are different when used in fighting.

Cheuk Fung is legit and worked hard to get to his level of skill.

Regardless of his website, video clips and whatever you've seen or heard about him he is respected by his yiquan and hop gar peers for his dedication to the practice and his attainments. All your criticisms and ignorant comments can not take that away from him.

No reason to get offended people are basically just calling "MYTHBUSTERS."

As I stated I believe your teacher has some skill which is why people think he can actually do this.

I've heard that Master Young (as his people call him) also has some real skill which is why he was able to start a cult.

It's the unfortunate dark side of martial arts, the teacher has some skill and their students think the teacher is capable of anything.

If you're still wondering why we're skeptics (aside from the fact that a lot of us on this board have trained for decades in both the east and the west) all I can say is watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un9gb_vB ... ature=fvwp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKh5BP-I ... re=related

[Muad'dib]

Greg, I think you had left already when I mentioned this sunday. I have experienced empty power, under circumstances that obviate the common skeptics arguments. That is to say, at the time I had never heard of empty power and I was not told what was going to happen. More correctly, there was no set up at all. I just felt something and there was no one within touching distance. That being said, the power did not knock me over or anything either. At this point I'd rather not go into details over the net, since a full description is difficult and I'm lazy. The combination means that I could easily spend my time just being nitpicked to death on details. Ask me next time we see each other.

[gzregorz]

I hear you Dan, I've definitely felt my share of parlor tricks including influencing the attacker's movements, the 1 inch punch and pushing someone only to have that part of their yield and blast me back, just to name a few.

But all of them were used to demonstrate a point or a principle and that was that.

More importantly though as you said it didn't involve a 230 pound man flying through the air from someone just waving their hands.

I think that 8 part series illustrates the possibilities of tricking the mind. Again I think their teacher probably has some skill, but that no touch isn't where it's at.

If I could I'd gladly meet the teacher to see if he could really do it on a non-compliant opponent. Who knows I could be wrong...but I doubt it.

Good times,

G

[Michael]

Just to back up what Zhong_Kui was saying, I have also experienced empty force type skill from a true master, who was able to cause my chin to suddenly move either left or right while qi was concentrated in a specific section of my body. The most amazing thing was the master's ability to cause the fabric of my blue jeans to constrict without being anywhere nearby. At this point I'd rather not go into details over the net, since a full description is difficult, I'm lazy, and I'm prohibited by the divorce decree.

[Ron Panunto]

The most amazing thing was the master's ability to cause the fabric of my blue jeans to constrict without being anywhere nearby.

Do you mean he was able to give you the legendary kongjin wedgie. That is true skill since this technique was thought to have gone extinct in the Ming dynasty. Either that or he must have given you the kongjin hard-on!

[Muad'dib]

Just to back up what Zhong_Kui was saying, I have also experienced empty force type skill from a true master, who was able to cause my chin to suddenly move either left or right while qi was concentrated in a specific section of my body. The most amazing thing was the master's ability to cause the fabric of my blue jeans to constrict without being anywhere nearby. At this point I'd rather not go into details over the net, since a full description is difficult, I'm lazy, and I'm prohibited by the divorce decree.

My wife can do that without Qi.

Yes Dear = head up and down.

No Dear = head right to left.

Constriction of jeans = ...

Seriously though, at no point in time was there contact between me and the individual, nor even words exchanged. It was me practicing and then thinking "What the hell was that?"

[GrahamB]

'that' was most likely the power of suggestion (even if you were not consciously aware of the suggestion). We are all susceptible to it, whether we've heard the words "empty force" before or not. It's very powerful. The alternative is that it was some sort of supernatural power...

[Muad'dib]

No, it was not. As I said.

[GrahamB]

But how do you know for sure? Beyond your own subjective judgement? How can you trust your own experience as reliable feedback?

I meet a lot of people in my Tai Chi class who are convinced they are standing up straight, when in fact they are leaning markedly. They are completely convinced of this fact until you stand them in front of a mirror. Then they realise they were wrong all along. Your own body and mind is not a reliable feedback mechanism.

As an example from my own experience. Went to an old Tai Chi teacher I used to have years ago for a health massage. He decided to use crystals this time, whatever I thought, might as well since I'm here and all. He put them around me as I lay on the table and left the room. I had this incredible feeling of heat in the soles of my feet - like they were on fire for about 15 minutes. It was amazing. I have no way to explain it. But.... it was only later I remembered that before he left the room he said something like "you might feel a little hot" and gave a knowing chuckle. That was it - that was the suggestion he put in my head. Very subtle. Combine that with the right atmosphere, expectation that 'something' would happen, relaxation, etc... that's all you need. You do the rest yourself.

[Muad'dib]

I agree. I know lots of people who are convinced they are good at martial arts too, but are not. If you want, you can call me and discuss this, but I am not describing the event, as you are already exhibiting the behavior I sought to avoid. I will PM you my contact details at your request.