Cheuk Fung on Yi Chuan

[gzregorz]

It looks like the teacher has some real skill, but that the student is giving the teacher a frame to push against.

I don't see any unbalancing really happening just straight pushes.

I'd recommend for the student to try to relax more instead of bracing for the push. In my mind competitive push hands is a waste of time anyway so instead of grunting and trying to push back just yield, besides pushing back isn't working. Also if you yield I think things would get a lot more interesting because your teacher would have to more than just straight pushes each time your arms meet.

As far as the no touch as Bruce said I'd have to feel it for myself. But Outside of being a party trick I don't think it would work so well against a group of high schools thugs with knives trying to take your wallet so why even bother? Just my 2 cents anyway.

Keep training. Demo clips are always tough to film and always get criticized.

Thanks for sharing,

G

[middleway]

When Hunyuan strength is used with the proper distance, leverage and timing the opponent flies away.

the demonstration of dancing by the pupils aside ...... I really have to wonder what the use of this is??

Hunyuan strength is to make the opponent fly away? Why would you want the opponent too? ... i guess maybe to make distance to run but then you better hope you're a faster runner!

I always was of the impression that the opponent should drop like a rag, you express force and he just falls where he stands ... this is the ideal for me ... when someone flys away its you being nice and not using a 'short power'.

However this quote suggests that the opponent flying away is actual usage. Interested in your thoughts.

cheers
Chris

[yichuan]

I've been around long enough to know that a few words and video clips are not going to change people's minds about our training methods. Frankly, without first hand experience of how different internal strength is than regular strength I would be a vocal critic as well.

The point of the materials on the new site is to put some context and background behind Master Fung's 's training methods and methodology. Some topics covered include:

- How these methods were learned directly from many of the top students of Yi Chuan's founder, Wang Sheng Chai
- How bouncing is a training method to develop and refine internal strength (hunyuan) and not necessarily a method for attacking an opponent
- How the bouncee's hop and stomp are a purposely trained way deal with overwhelming force without collapsing or losing center and balance
- How most of the force that creates the bounce is reflected back from the attacker
- How the orbits used to bounce an opponent away can be condensed in time and space for striking

Like many of you I have trained in a number of martial arts over the years, spent plenty of time in the gym and participate in many athletic activities. Internal Strength (Hunyaun) is different from what I developed in all of those other activities and I'm simply sharing my experience here for those who may be interested. -Steve

[Ron Panunto]

I've been around long enough to know that a few words and video clips are not going to change people's minds about our training methods. Frankly, without first hand experience of how different internal strength is than regular strength I would be a vocal critic as well.

The point of the materials on the new site is to put some context and background behind Master Fung's 's training methods and methodology. Some topics covered include:

- How these methods were learned directly from many of the top students of Yi Chuan's founder, Wang Sheng Chai
- How bouncing is a training method to develop and refine internal strength (hunyuan) and not necessarily a method for attacking an opponent
- How the bouncee's hop and stomp are a purposely trained way deal with overwhelming force without collapsing or losing center and balance
- How most of the force that creates the bounce is reflected back from the attacker
- How the orbits used to bounce an opponent away can be condensed in time and space for striking

Like many of you I have trained in a number of martial arts over the years, spent plenty of time in the gym and participate in many athletic activities. Internal Strength (Hunyaun) is different from what I developed in all of those other activities and I'm simply sharing my experience here for those who may be interested. -Steve

Steve, I agree that internal strength is different than muscular strength, but if I caught one of my students acting like a circus clown when he touched me I'd smack him a good one upside the head.

[GrahamB]

When you're a teacher you discover that it's like that song from the Eurythmics:

Sweet dreams are made of this
Who am I to disagree?
Travel the world and the seven seas
Everybody's looking for something
Some of them want to use you
Some of them want to get used by you
Some of them want to abuse you
Some of them want to be abused

[stan baker]

more bs from Yi Chuan

stan

[Wanderingdragon]

The Power and technique are true, it is in having the high sensitivity to know where the tension is that will allow you to apply the shock, when to apply the shock, at exactly what angle to apply the shock, on an uncooperative opponent not some one looking for your structure to ride on.

[Ba-men]

"yichuan"]Not too many years ago I would have the same opinion as you. Obviously my opinion has changed, you can see me being tossed around in several of the clips.

Laughter... Asinine... Ignorant... Charlatan... Huckster... Unknowing... Gullible...

[klonk]

Now wait, wasn't the latest buzz, from Ken Fish, Shooter and others that we were all supposed to be more civil and charitable when talking about folks?

"His skills are by far the best I have seen in his school."

"Diligence is always admirable."

"I had not thought of it quite that way before."

Tell all the truth you can!

[klonk]

A final thought. If there is nothing to cock a snook at, thumb the old nasal orifices, have a good hearty laugh, then note this well. There is nothing praiseworthy either.

[Sprint]

Master Fung's 's training methods and methodology. Some topics covered include:

- How these methods were learned directly from many of the top students of Yi Chuan's founder, Wang Sheng Chai
- How bouncing is a training method to develop and refine internal strength (hunyuan) and not necessarily a method for attacking an opponent
- How the bouncee's hop and stomp are a purposely trained way deal with overwhelming force without collapsing or losing center and balance
- How most of the force that creates the bounce is reflected back from the attacker
- How the orbits used to bounce an opponent away can be condensed in time and space for striking

I took the trouble to look at the site. What your teacher says about hunyuan li I would go along with for the most part. It's clear that he understands the concept - although I completely disagree with all the no touch stuff. What is not at all clear is whether he actually knows how to apply what he has conceptualized.

Also this nonsense about jumping out of the way is definitely not how it's done in Beijing. Let me assure you that (for training purposes) when receiving fali all you need to be able to do is hold your frame. If you move it's because you training partner got it right, not because of deliberately leaping in the air. Let me repeat deliberately leaping in the air has no place in yiquan and certainly has nothing to do with developing hunyuan li. Receiving fa li will help to tune your hunyuan li, but that is a consequence of receiving a large incoming force not leaping out of the way as soon as you feel a little tension.

Your teacher seems to imply that it is just too dangerous to practice fali on someone else - hence the need for all the jumping. Please believe me when I say this is complete crap.

Also there is no sign of sparring on the site, no punchbags, no focus mitts, no kick pads? So do you spar? Do you use body armor? When do you practice your fali full power? How do you pressure test your hunyuan li.

PS It strikes me that you made the assumption that no-one on RSF knows anything about yiquan, if you did then that was a mistake.

[pingpong]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y387no40 ... re=related

Hi Steve,

it looks like this student is quite powerful also, in terms of the effect that he is having on the other students. I would be interested to know the length of training of each of the three main guys...not the specific length of time, just whether the guy testing his strength has been learning longer than the other two, whether the chinese guy has been learning longer than the big guy, etc.

thanks
James

[stan baker]

I did not see any power

stan

[Interloper]

Also this nonsense about jumping out of the way is definitely not how it's done in Beijing. Let me assure you that (for training purposes) when receiving fali all you need to be able to do is hold your frame. If you move it's because you training partner got it right, not because of deliberately leaping in the air. Let me repeat deliberately leaping in the air has no place in yiquan and certainly has nothing to do with developing hunyuan li. Receiving fa li will help to tune your hunyuan li, but that is a consequence of receiving a large incoming force not leaping out of the way as soon as you feel a little tension.

This reminds me very much of a common approach to modern aikido, in which partners must be willing collaborators and often throw themselves before a technique is applied, in anticipation of it. Sometimes it's because the person "taking the throw" rationalizes that he must protect himself from the power of the technique, but just as often it's because that person simply wants to make his teacher look good, or is in such hero-worship of his teacher that he convinces himself that he has been thrown (before it happens). I've seen plenty of "no-touch" throws in that vein.

I'd be more impressed by a partner who resists and uses his own internal skills to do so. On video it wouldn't make for an exciting action scene, but it would be a more honest test of skills -- both by the thrower and the throwee .

[BruceP]

If RSF is indeed like a bar, gzregorz's drinks are on me.

Nice post, Greg.

Bruce