open letter to jake...

[JAB]

Mr Toes and others -
I want to be straight here.... I did not trash anyone. Steve Barowsky, Sam Chin, Ashe.... no one. Ashe has skewed the perspective here a bit, and I really wish he would man up a bit and set it straight.

My original comments were re: Steve Barowky's Wu Taiji workshop rates of $200. The info was posted on a PUBLIC FORUM, where the PUBLIC can come and offer feedback or OPINIONS on said PUBLIC posting. For some reason Ashe has decided to focus the attention on him and his teacher issuing a challenge to me publicly and implying I was talking shit about his teacher. None of which is true. Now I am accused of "breaking rice bowls."

To the point:

This is silly bullshit. I have never met Ashe, nor Sam Chin, so why would I publicly shit talk them? I have no profit nor motive.
As for my opinion on a PUBLIC FORUM.... this board needs to eat a large bar of HTFU! Man up a bit and take criticism. I was never rude nor did I say anything negative about anyone. I stated that I felt the prices for said seminars were too much for the area, and not worth it for me. I have a right to that opinion. If you do not like it, okay. You have that right!

If any of my comments on this silly little board has swayed an individual from attending any $200 seminar, then I highly doubt they were THAT committed to come in the first place! And again, even if they did, THIS IS A PUBLIC FORUM WHERE OPINIONS ARE ALLOWED TO BE EXPRESSED (at least I thought it was. Seems perhaps you would like it more like EF?)!

So while I think it is cute that some hide atop their white horse and preach Wu De, it has nothing to do with anything Wu De! MY OPINION is that any seminar CMA or Qi Gong related that costs $200 is prohibitive for those who do not make much money, are students, in the military, or just someone who REALLY needs it! Pricing things a bit out of reach for the average Joe is not propogating the arts, is not spreading Wu De.

But that is just my opinion.

Ashe, straighten things up a bit would you since this is your "open letter to Jake" and you really had NOTHING to do with this in the first place! I will apologize if somehow you truly feel I have smudged your teachers good name. But honestly I think it is quite a stretch to skew things the way you have. If you have some issue with me, take it up directly. Not this way. If you don't, then perhaps you should back away from the admin power stick and let a public forum run as it should. No one has to read anything I post if they do not wish to. You don't hear me whining about wude or other such things when someone disagree's with me do you?

Cheers
JAB

[ashe]

If you look at my user name, you'll notice that its no longer bright red and bold. I stepped down as an admin in the beginning of february. So youre free to your opinion and so am I.

And my opinion is you've been very disrespectful to this entire community for a minute now. You rarely have anything good to say about what anyone else is doing, Constantly talk down to its members (silly little forum), etc. etc..

You've had a lot of good teachers, you train hard and I respect that. I've heard you're a good guy in person, but frankly speaking I think you're a bit of a douche around here.

[ChiBelly]

I don't get all the fuss. People run seminars to make a profit that they couldn't otherwise with a school in a fixed location. It's business, not charity. If you run a seminar, you need to find a balance between charging as much as you can (profit margin) and having a price low enough to attract numbers (total profit).

If the cost is too much for you, talk to the teacher to indicate your sincere interest in the material and try to convince him you're not a nut job or cheapskate. When there's something in it for the teacher besides money, good chance he'll lower the cost. Otherwise, what motive would the teacher have to lower the price for you?

[JAB]

Feeling is pretty much mutual Ashe. I have plenty nice to say about good stuff / people. But I am also not bashful about calling BS on BS, and many on this board are uber sensitive. I am opinionated just like everyone else here. Just because I do not sugar coat behind a veil of "Wu De" or whatever you want to call it, does not mean I am a douche.

I have done more for the CMA community than many combined here Ashe. I respect that you do not like me or my opinions, but lets not start a pissing contest over your perceived issue. Bottom line is fact is fact, opinion is opinion. I think you need to unblur the distinction in your eyes. I never said shit about you, or your teacher. I just said I think $200 is too much for a CMA seminar in the PAC NW. The rest of this bullshit you drug in the door solely. Pick a fight elsewhere bro. If you want to tell me how much of a douche I am, email me. To do something like this is.... well.... it is acting the exact way you accuse me of being.

Way to go Pot!
Kettle

[ashe]

alright well, i've said my peace, you've said yours. nuff said i suppose.

[johnrieber]

I just said I think $200 is too much for a CMA seminar in the PAC NW.

yeah--but it looks to me like the heat in this thread--and the wu te and ricebowl discussion--came from from the fact that that could mean two differerent things.

could mean: 'the way the market and the economy are around here--trust me, i've done seminars around here--you're going to have a hard time finding people who're going to shell out for that. and a lot of the people you want to turn up won't be able to afford it'.

could also mean: 'that shit that guy's teaching--no way is that worth $200 bucks. no way is anybody's shit worth that much around here. what a fucking ripoff--'.

i think that maybe you meant the former. but the way you came across, you sounded like you meant the latter.

ashe's letter and offer were basically saying, yeah, that might seem like a chunk of change--but check it out for yourself. when we charge that much for a seminar anywhere, the people who go get their money's worth.

[chud]

I just said I think $200 is too much for a CMA seminar in the PAC NW.

could mean: 'the way the market and the economy are around here--trust me, i've done seminars around here--you're going to have a hard time finding people who're going to shell out for that. and a lot of the people you want to turn up won't be able to afford it'.

That's the way I took it. We are in a recession after all (some would say depression).

[johnrieber]

yeah. it's tough.

i could fill up a couple of pages with all of the classes and seminars i've wanted to go to, this past year. wouldn't need any paper at all to write down the ones i've gone to.

[cerebus]

I just said I think $200 is too much for a CMA seminar in the PAC NW.

yeah--but it looks to me like the heat in this thread--and the wu te and ricebowl discussion--came from from the fact that that could mean two differerent things.

could mean: 'the way the market and the economy are around here--trust me, i've done seminars around here--you're going to have a hard time finding people who're going to shell out for that. and a lot of the people you want to turn up won't be able to afford it'.

could also mean: 'that shit that guy's teaching--no way is that worth $200 bucks. no way is anybody's shit worth that much around here. what a fucking ripoff--'.

i think that maybe you meant the former. but the way you came across, you sounded like you meant the latter.

ashe's letter and offer were basically saying, yeah, that might seem like a chunk of change--but check it out for yourself. when we charge that much for a seminar anywhere, the people who go get their money's worth.

This is the best explanation of my own understanding of what's been happening as well. I think Jake meant one thing but his post kinda sounded like he was hinting at something else. And to say Ashe is issuing a "challenge" when he made it clear that he wasn't, I'm not sure what that's about.

[Void]

I read Jake's post to be condescending - maybe he just needs a PR man

[johnrieber]

I read Jake's post to be condescending - maybe he just needs a PR man

i don't reckon he means to be.

flipside, he's never bothered to figure out why so many folks so often feel like he's sounding that way, either.

funny world...

[The_Tao]

IDEA:

How about we drop this and move on and let this thread get locked and we move on. Both parties have said their peace and adding fuel to the fire proves and does nothing. I don't post much any more but I joined EF way before the split when my teacher was an active member on this forum and it has always been a place where people would agree to disagree and they have done that and we move on. People adding comments just re opens a dead debate. so moderators please lock this thread if Ashe and Jab have nothing more to say since it is between them and doesn't concern anyone else at this point.


Tao

[Dai Zhi Qiang]

I would love to bring, master,Yan Long Chang over to the USA to do some seminars on Dai Xin Yi Quan, but I do not think there is enough exposure of Dai style as a whole yet and taking expenses into consideration (airfares, accommodation and translator into the equation) it all seems a little daunting.

I am sure if I could get him to come to the US, whoever attended would be impressed by his skills, but the problem is, would participants have unrealistic expectations as to what they would come away from it with?

Jon

[JAB]

WOW! Really!?!? Okay then...

Number 1: Ashe -
I gleam from your comment that you feel you have said all that needs to be said. You pick a fight with me and then back out like this eh? I have never met you, and to the best of my knowledge I have never wronged you. I see where you stand now, though I have no clue why you take such a stand.

RE: My condescending tone.

First of all not at all what I meant! I stated several times in my posts that $200 is too much for the PAC NW, this economy, with things the way they are, for the average joe etc. etc. etc. How the f$#% does anyone get a condescending inference from those words?

On one hand SOME of you criticize me for being so brash and not having a filter, on the other hand I am now accused of pussy footing around and saying in a very passive - aggressive manner that Steve Barawosky is not worth shit? WTF guys!!?!?!??! I have never met him! I may talk shit, and call spades spades. But I have never put a man down I have not met so openly and blatantly as I am being accused of! And since when do I pussy foot around about ANYTHING???? I speak my mind, and never said anything that would infer any such attitude.

Flipside: regardless of my tone (which cannot be inferred via the internet) read my words instead of skimming the headlines! I never inferred nor said anything other than $200 is too much to charge in my opinion.

Peace,
JAB

[xxxxx]

IDEA:

How about we drop this and move on and let this thread get locked and we move on.