Note on Jin v. Jing

[Bob]

Previous discussions on ting jin there was a focus on the use of jing--in the 1980s-90s here is how Adam Hsu used it in the translations of his articles:

Fa Jing (發勁): Power Issuing

Interview of Sifu Adam Hsu
by Ryuji Matsuda (松田隆智)
(Recorded by Syou Oyanagi (大柳勝)
Published in the Japanese magazine, Wushu in 1983
Translated to English by Joan-Huey Dow)

Part 2
(back to part 1)


Figure 8 (Click to enlarge) 6. If You Don't Learn Chan Si Jing, You Don't Learn Chinese Kung Fu!

There are two important topics in learning kung fu: one is the method of power issuing (fa jing) and the other one is the technique of attack and defense. These two topics are not independent, but intertwined together and cannot be separated. If we can issue power with strong force but don't know the techniques to attack and defend, we can never defeat the opponent no matter how strong the power we can issue. On the contrary, if we only know the techniques of attack and defense but do not know the method of power issuing, we cannot defeat the opponent either no matter now many times we are able to hit the opponent. These two techniques are complementary and should be learned simultaneously. The fact that Chinese kung fu has many curved and circular movements is due to the influence of the fa jing method and also the chan si jing. It can be demonstrated by taiji quan and bagua zhang.

We can use spear to explain further. Many countries in the world have various types of spears. The Masai tribe in Africa throws their spears to attack the target. Both Europe and Japan have spears for poking and thrusting. From the traditional Chinese kung fu point of view, these weapons are not real spears. Their usages indeed are closer to staff based on the techniques and the methods of power issuing. If the usage of a weapon does not have the curved and circular movements, i.e., chan si jing, it is not really a spear technique per Chinese kung fu standards.

Why do we say, "Spear is the king of all weapons," in Chinese martial arts? This is due to the spiral movements – chan si jing. Other Chinese weapons have the spiral movement too, but they don't emphasize it as much as in spear. Therefore we can say that it is not traditional Chinese kung fu if there is no chan si jing in the movements. This is the soul of Chinese kung fu.

7. The Types and Methods of Fa Jing

I cannot give a complete list of all jing from all kung fu styles. In short, every kung fu style has its own character, focus, and strength. We cannot really judge if any one is better than others. The common methods of "jing" are as follows:

"Thrust jing" (衝勁) is the straight thrusting and punching movement.
"Down jing" (揣勁) is the pushing down movement.
"Up jing" (攢勁) is the upward striking movement.
"Spring jing" (彈勁) is the curving, springing movement.
"Throw jing" (甩勁) is the sweeping and throwing out movement.
"Shake jing" (抖勁) is the shaking up movement.
"Split jing" (劈勁) is the cutting and chopping movement.
...Etc.
These are the methods of jing with noticeable power issuing movements. In addition, there are many methods of jing that don't have very noticeable movements, such as the "expanding jing" (掤勁) in taiji quan and "suck jing" (吸勁) in Chinese wrestling. It is very hard to tell with the eyes, but it can be identified easily through touch.

The Categories of Fa Jing Based on Direction and Distance

Now let's discuss the categories of jing based on direction and distance. Per direction there are "straight jing," "horizontal jing," and "diagonal jing." (直勁, 橫勁, 斜勁) Per distance there are "long jing," "middle jing," and "short jing." The "thrust jing" is an example of "straight jing" because the word "thrust" is the action of pushing straight ahead like the "blocking hand fist" (掩手捶) in taiji quan. The "horizontal jing" means pushing sideway like the "under elbow fist" (肘底捶) in taiji quan. The "diagonal jing" is for the direction between the front and the side, i.e., 45 degree angle, like the "groin pointing fist" (指擋捶) in taiji quan. These are the three basic types of jing in terms of direction although there are other jing for different directions and angles too. In addition, I want to point out that changing direction of the jing is comparatively easy to achieve.

The next category is differences in distance: In real combat, we should hit the target when issuing power no matter what the distance from the target is. Otherwise, it becomes useless. Therefore, we want to be able to issue power and complete the mission of the movement for targets at any distance. Of course, it becomes more difficult to issue power as the distance becomes shorter. That's why it is very important to know the proper way to practice.

We can take "lift palm" (托掌) in "xiao baji" as an example: It is a "middle jing" and it's very hard to do. It will take a long time - a year or longer - and tremendous effort and suffering to master it if we practice it as a "middle jing" from the beginning. We can practice it as a "long jing" at the beginning and continue for 3 months to really grasp the details of this movement. We then shorten the distance and continue the practice for another 3 months. By this approach, we will eventually be able to shorten the distance and valuable time to meet the requirements of the "middle jing" much easier.

It should be noted that fa jing is a basic training and the practice should start from "long jing." It is also important to remember: "long jing" indeed has all the key components of the advanced movement - "short jing." Training should be conducted step by step without skipping any steps in between.



Figure 11 (Click to enlarge) 9. Degree of Jing: Visible, Hidden, and Melt

Let's move on to discuss the meaning of "visible," "hidden," and "melt" in jing, i.e., the three stages "visible jing," "hidden jing," and "melt jing." The "visible jing" can be seen easily and everyone can identify all movements in the power issuing process. The existence of jing in "hidden jing" cannot be identified clearly and not everyone can see and understand the movements well. The "melt jing" cannot be recognized at all. The "visible jing" is described with four traditional characters that mean "with shape and expression;" the "hidden jing" is "with ambiguous and almost non-existing shape and expression;" and the "melt jing" is "without shape and expression."

Then what is "shape?" And what is "expression?" There are the two steps in the power issuing process: preparation and utilization. In other words, the former is accumulating power and the latter is issuing power.

When one can advance his skill gradually from visible to hidden, and then from hidden to melt to accumulate and issue power, his movements become invisible to most people. Accumulating power is the preparation step that is like "pulling the bow." Issuing power is the utilization step that is like "releasing the arrow."

We can use "stealing heart palm" (偷心掌) in "da baji" as an example. I would show all the movements clearly if I demonstrate it. However, if my teacher, Sifu Liu Yun-Chiao, were to demonstrate it, you would be totally confused because you won't be able see all movements clearly. The layman may say, "Sifu Hsu, your baji is better than your teacher's!" This is due to the fact that I must try my best to intentionally show all the power issuing movements clearly so that people can see each step. Sifu Liu’s demonstration would not show the movements of accumulating and issuing power clearly because he used the "melt jing" all the time! As a martial arts practitioner, we should pay attention: The differences lie in each one's skill and achievement.

Last but not least: what is the mental aspect of jing? Here is the conclusion of this article.

Jing is not force; it is more advanced and refined than force. Jing is not a posture; it is a movement--postures are the preparatory and ending positions, while movement is the transition between postures. Jing is not spirit, expression, or "beauty" although jing can be expressed beautifully. Jing is not qi but it requires qi. Jing is not a physical body but it requires a physical body to carry it out. Jing is not a thought and not a mindset either, but it requires your mind to lead and focus it.

Then what's the use of mental training in kung fu? It is important to remember this: Chan si jing is endless and flexible. It is full of varieties and possibilities. It is not monotonous at all. It waits for the best opportunity to emerge calmly and quietly with no haste. It does not insist on subjective opinion and determination. It takes advantage of any opportunity without reservation and hesitation. When it identifies the target, it persists and does not give up easily. Therefore, it affects the practitioner's character, interpersonal and social skills, and attitude towards life. The characteristics of chan si jing are exactly the typical characteristics of Chinese people. That's why Chinese invented the kung fu. They invented chan si jing due to these special ethnic characteristics. The same can be said of other areas outside of martial arts, such as philosophy, arts, and literature.

Chinese individuals can take the full advantage of chan si jing due to their personalities and mental characteristics. Therefore I have the following advice for all practitioners of kung fu, especially non-Chinese practitioners who are reading this article: In addition to kung fu practice, you should study and come to understand the Chinese people, their culture and characteristics. This includes the study and experience of disciplines such as philosophy, history, the arts, cuisine, and even the language. This is the best way to help you to master kung fu and, at the same time, make this art, which is so deeply connected to its ethnic roots, into a genuine Global Chinese kung fu!

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Last Upated 6-23-08

http://www.adamhsu.com/articles/taiwanblog_FaJing2.html

[D_Glenn]

Great article. Thanks Bob.

Important part here:

"It should be noted that fa jing is a basic training and the practice should start from "long jing." It is also important to remember: "long jing" indeed has all the key components of the advanced movement - "short jing." Training should be conducted step by step without skipping any steps in between."

and

"I would show all the movements clearly if I demonstrate it. However, if my teacher, Sifu Liu Yun-Chiao, were to demonstrate it, you would be totally confused because you won't be able see all movements clearly."



***

BTW there was no issue on spelling fajin vs. fajing. To be correct in Beijing you would write Fajinr.


The argument was only about the character/word: 勁, is a completely different word than the character of 精.

Phillips was insisting that they're the same word with interchangable meanings, which clearly they are not.


.

[Wuyizidi]

There are some very unique opinions expressed here.

For example: historically people say spear is the king of weapons because after cavalry and foot soldiers replaced fighting on chariots, spear replaced ge, ji, shu, and yi mao (four of the five "weapons of chariot") as the premier intermediate range weapon (bow and arrow was king of long range) on the battlefield. It was called king because it is the longest, strongest, quickest in making change, and hardest to defend against. As Wu Shu said in Arms Journal about long sword vs. spear: "As [the author on the subject of sword] I dare not not say anything on this, but [as a martial artist] I dare not say sword can defend against spear. If someone with sword defeated someone with spear, we do not say the person's swordsmanship is good, we say the other person's spear is terrible." Meaning, if the person with spear use it as it meant to be used, the person with sword (or any other non-projectile cold weapon) will never even get a chance to win, as he will never get in range to use his weapon. Warriors of all ages wanted weapons that allow them to touch the opponent, but their opponent cannot touch them. So spear was "king of weapons" the same way artillery was "king of battlefield" during WWI - it made 70% of kills. In that regard no weapon was superior.

As for Chan Si jin, any circular movement you can make with a spear you can make with a staff. Does that make staff king of weapons also? No, of course not, because spear's movement is smaller ("spear travels in a line, staff travels in a plane"), therefore faster, the spear comes at you as a traveling point, the staff as a sweeping line, ... The difference is the sharp point in front.

In Chinese martial art we say 'wu quan bu chen quan', here quan is a general reference to skill, so 'there is no skill without circles". Actually here skill means high level, clever skills. If some culture's spear does not incorporate circular movements, as long as they use the sharp point in front to thrust and kill, even if it does not represent high level skill, but it is still spear. It is still king.

As for jin, I think the article makes it more mystical than it is. Martial art, whether empty hand or with weapons, is fundamentally about getting within range of your opponent, generate a force using your weapon (human body, or external weapon), and land that force on your opponent's body to cause incapacitation. It's all about applications of forces. As the author himself had pointed out, some times that force is large, sometimes small, sometimes that force is generated with a big visible movement, sometimes so tiny we can hardly see it. Just as in the case spear, we cannot say only one way of using the spear is spear. A small force is still a force.

The way most people use that word, Jin means a very large force. In internal martial art, we say it's a trained force - meaning it's not a force you can produce without any training. It's specially created, designed to accomplish a certain task (top spin in tennis, for example). A native speaker like Adam Hsu would never mix up the words jin and movement, I think something's lost in translation here.

And as a native speaker, I have to say there is nothing in Chinese martial art that cannot be transmitted to a non-speaker. The only major challenge being there are many basic words in Chinese that are not in English (this is true when comparing any two languages). Then there are concepts that are native to China (yin yang, wu xing, bagua), but transmitting those are not really the problem, as they are about universal principles that anyone can see and feel, even if they didn't have the words for it before. Lots of things are described using these philosophical terms because everyone knows all the meanings represented by those high-density words. Everyone from China that is. We use those words because it's convenient, because it's a shorthand, like jargons all professionals use. If you have a teacher who is familiar with both Chinese and western culture, with classical and modern concepts, then there's no need to use these esoteric terms.

I really feel like a lot of times they get in way of transmitting the knowledge. Not to mention many people try to hide behind the mysticism. For example the people I practice with are all Americans, they all follow multiple sports, when I practice with them I don't use awkward words like "posture" (the closest word in English for 'shi' is too static), or "structure" (we actually don't use this word in Chinese martial art, but for some reason people like to use it here. Again, too static), etc. We don't get bogged down on what should be simple concepts like 'shen fa'. I use words they know from sports. Martial art is a physical activity. It is movement. It may take me a long time to explain things in completely natural English, but there is no way around that. If I just say this punch (not "fist") is "fire" or "water", would a non-Chinese speaker know the 5, 6 layers of meaning we compressed in those words?

I would love it if everyone who studies Chinese martial art studies Chinese culture, but the kind of immersion necessary to be effective is not possible with most people living here. You'd have to live in China for decades (shorter if you're born there or went there very young).

[Bob]

I want to thank both of you for comments and points--all very insightful and helpful in helping one sort out their martial arts experiences.

In the 1980s, when I started writing for my teacher, I had no back ground in Chinese and the jin v. jing pinyin was sort of a dilemma although jing as essence was never part of the confusion.

I also like this quote:

These are the methods of jing with noticeable power issuing movements. In addition, there are many methods of jing that don't have very noticeable movements, such as the "expanding jing" (掤勁) in taiji quan and "suck jing" (吸勁) in Chinese wrestling. It is very hard to tell with the eyes, but it can be identified easily through touch.

Thanks!

[Scott P. Phillips]

Thanks Bob, and Adam Hsu, I am vindicated!

The description of melted jing is clearly what I was talking about in the previous posts. Hsu doesn't directly take on what the relationship between the two different characters 勁 and 精 is; However he does say this:

Jing is not force; it is more advanced and refined than force. Jing is not a posture; it is a movement--postures are the preparatory and ending positions, while movement is the transition between postures. Jing is not spirit, expression, or "beauty" although jing can be expressed beautifully. Jing is not qi but it requires qi. Jing is not a physical body but it requires a physical body to carry it out. Jing is not a thought and not a mindset either, but it requires your mind to lead and focus it.

See! He clearly invokes 勁 in relationship to the 精-qi-shen cosmological structure of stillness/action. In other words, melted 勁 (which follows qi, led by yi) can also be described as 精-qi-shen---where shen is the totality of your mind.

kisses....

[ChiBelly]

As for Chan Si jin, any circular movement you can make with a spear you can make with a staff. Does that make staff king of weapons also? No, of course not, because spear's movement is smaller ("spear travels in a line, staff travels in a plane"), therefore faster, the spear comes at you as a traveling point, the staff as a sweeping line, ... The difference is the sharp point in front.

It's typical of most southern staff that I have seen to use both swinging (line) and piercing (point) strikes. The spear method is usually very similar except that there are techniques that take advantage of the smaller amount of force required to do damage with a sharp edge / point and the fact that there is weighted end.

[xxxxx]

Proceed here.

[edededed]

I've not watched too much southern staff, but it does seem that the staff methods of Wing Chun and Hung Gar both seem to be derived from spear (you can see the lan, na, zha). Very interesting!

[D_Glenn]

Thanks Bob, and Adam Hsu, I am vindicated!

The description of melted jing is clearly what I was talking about in the previous posts. Hsu doesn't directly take on what the relationship between the two different characters 勁 and 精 is; However he does say this:

Hsu is only the talking about mingjin, anjin, and huajin, from Xingyi Quan, a better translation is Obvious Jin, Hidden Jin, and Transforming JIn which mean:

1- In the beginning your Jin is Obvious and the opponent could easily Transform your attacks so you have to charge into them and press the attack.

2- As you get better and your Jin is more hidden, so the opponent can't find and Transform you as easily you can work strong attack and defense.

3- At your highest level of refinement you can Transform the opponent's attacks.

Jing is not force; it is more advanced and refined than force. Jing is not a posture; it is a movement--postures are the preparatory and ending positions, while movement is the transition between postures. Jing is not spirit, expression, or "beauty" although jing can be expressed beautifully. Jing is not qi but it requires qi. Jing is not a physical body but it requires a physical body to carry it out. Jing is not a thought and not a mindset either, but it requires your mind to lead and focus it.

See! He clearly invokes 勁 in relationship to the 精-qi-shen cosmological structure of stillness/action. In other words, melted 勁 (which follows qi, led by yi) can also be described as 精-qi-shen---where shen is the totality of your mind.

Only you invoke that relationship Pal.


The Daoist cultivation practices are done side by side in some IMAs but it's a completely different paradigm and afaik it wasn't even in the Muslim arts from which mingjin, anjin, and huajin came from.


.

[Doc Stier]

Well, once again, it should be noted that perception is reality for most people. Therefore, based upon current skill level, current understanding of core principles and current personal training goals, each individual practitioner of any style will be inclined to view all available resource information as a validation of how they perceive their art and of what they wish their art to be for themselves.

This is not an unusual phenomenon, IMO, but is actually quite typical of human nature in general, is it not?

Doc

[ChiBelly]

I've not watched too much southern staff, but it does seem that the staff methods of Wing Chun and Hung Gar both seem to be derived from spear (you can see the lan, na, zha). Very interesting!

I would guess that the derivation is actually the other way around. As a weapons technology, staff is much older and also more widely available to train in the absence of metal work. I think usually in southern systems, your learn staff before spear.

[D_Glenn]

The difference between a single-tipped spear and a staff is significant as the staff hits with both ends and pokes with both ends.

One example: when alternating hitting end to end the hands are moving one forward one backward, while the spear usually has both hands moving forward or both backward.

.

[Ron Panunto]

The difference between a single-tipped spear and a staff is significant as the staff hits with both ends and pokes with both ends.

One example: when alternating hitting end to end the hands are moving one forward one backward, while the spear usually has both hands moving forward or both backward.

.

In Chen Taiji we have the White Ape Staff/Plum Flower Spear form. Staff & spear techniques are trained as one and are interchangeable.

[ShortFormMike]

Bob, I already clarified this issue in a previois thread. One is discharged into an opponent, the other is into a klenex or gym sock.