LKJ / empty force explanation

[RobP2]

From what I´ve seen LKJ has just been misunderstood on the way. There are exercises that build it up, but they weren´t supposed to be used for pushing or attacking people, it´s just an advanced stage of listening skills. Someone snafu´d on the way, or thought it would be a groovy thing to make the students be more impressed.
D.

That's pretty much my understanding. Mind you only one teacher I met (Vincent Chu) ever described it like that. He maintained it was just something that developed between people who train together a long time and that it was not useful for fighting. OTOH I've met plenty of teachers who then took it "one step beyond" and used it to bolster their status as a "master". In some cases the grooming that went on with students was nauseating

I've also had workshop experience with a couple of guys who specialised in LKJ and didn't see anything beyond psycho / physical manipulation (which can be a useful thing in itself, but call it what it is). We also had a guy come to class once who made lots of LKJ claims. Nothing worked against any of my students, which he put down to their "strong chi" and "energy blackspots" in the room.......

[GrahamB]

My wallet chakra is completely blocked, just ask my wife.

[ShortFormMike]

Yea I'm sure most people here tried to feel it. It's bullshit. But I,ve been moved without being touched before. And I was trying to stand still too. Xie bingcan did it to me. But it was from eye contact and taking advantage of reflexes. Actually he pulled me forward half a step, not push me back. He said lkj is fake.

[Dmitri]

Sounds like this needs to be posted again... It'll never get old, in my book.
Every "LKJ believer" who didn't see this should watch and think hard... If nothing in their belief system changes, then I guess nothing will save them.

[Chris_McKinley]

ShortFormMike, you've only been self-deceived. There's a big difference between that and real magic/telekinesis.

[karlson]

The Chinese don't have the magic market cornered.
The Indians have it. So too do the Muslims. In the West we have the Rosicrucians, Templars, Freemasons, Theosophists, O.T.O, some American Indians, etc.
Most of these people do not practice a physical martial art but consider the use of their magic as martial techniques in another kind of warfare.
If you don't believe or haven't experienced this magic, it's because you are not ready. This is not an insult, just be patient.

[klonk]

Mmmm, that´d be nice. All that heavy shit could just float in the air next to you, with the weapons at the right height in Air Holsters (TM).

....

That would be convenient, but why not take the idea a step farther? With sufficient development of the empty farce, it should be possible to leave the weaponry behind altogether.
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[Chris_McKinley]

karlson,

I guess at this point I need to know just how new to the neijia path you are if you're going to be lecturing me on what I have/have not or will/will not experience. You see, I'm nobody's idea of a newb to this stuff, and although I make it a point not to spend a lot of time discussing such matters in this forum, there's a good bet that I've spent more time and study in the weird-ass end of these arts than most of the board does. I'm one of the more knowledgeable TCM/energy arts practitioners this board has. There are things that are frankly far too subjectively personal to be discussed in the limitations of a text-only public forum.

When it comes specifically to LKJ, it's been outed as a complete farce so repeatedly and so consistently (not to mention that it requires actual magic) that I cannot allow it to be discussed as a serious possibility for those who may be fooled into believing in it for their own self-protection without unequivocally saying something about it. You see, I may be this board's most experienced hypnotist IRL and I can replicate not only LKJ but other things that haven't yet been discussed, all through purely non-magical means.

Besides, we as a community on this board have been through this topic so many dozens of times over the years and discussed every nuance of the matter so exhaustively that there's really not anything left to say. The posters' general consensus is that it is an embarrassing farce that doesn't belong in any serious discussion of the martial arts and is an unfortunate stain on the legacy of the legitimate internal martial arts practice we all strive to pursue. That's why it's an automatic BTDT any time the subject comes up as a long-time ruling of the moderators.

[Dmitri]

I am truly worried about your liver now, Chris.

[Chris_McKinley]

Chris McKinley: straight-up voodoo hippie, beeyotches.

[karlson]

karlson,

I guess at this point I need to know just how new to the neijia path you are if you're going to be lecturing me on what I have/have not or will/will not experience. You see, I'm nobody's idea of a newb to this stuff, and although I make it a point not to spend a lot of time discussing such matters in this forum, there's a good bet that I've spent more time and study in the weird-ass end of these arts than most of the board does. I'm one of the more knowledgeable TCM/energy arts practitioners this board has. There are things that are frankly far too subjectively personal to be discussed in the limitations of a text-only public forum.

When it comes specifically to LKJ, it's been outed as a complete farce so repeatedly and so consistently (not to mention that it requires actual magic) that I cannot allow it to be discussed as a serious possibility for those who may be fooled into believing in it for their own self-protection without unequivocally saying something about it. You see, I may be this board's most experienced hypnotist IRL and I can replicate not only LKJ but other things that haven't yet been discussed, all through purely non-magical means.

Besides, we as a community on this board have been through this topic so many dozens of times over the years and discussed every nuance of the matter so exhaustively that there's really not anything left to say. The posters' general consensus is that it is an embarrassing farce that doesn't belong in any serious discussion of the martial arts and is an unfortunate stain on the legacy of the legitimate internal martial arts practice we all strive to pursue. That's why it's an automatic BTDT any time the subject comes up as a long-time ruling of the moderators.

Chris,

You misunderstood my post. I did not quote you, I only used part of your quote as a reference to other readers. I am not questioning the integrity of your knowledge of the matter. I respect any viewpoint you have.

Karlson

[Teazer]

First baby pic to which I've ever had the urge to go "awwww, cute"

[Chris_McKinley]

karlson,

Kudos for the mea culpa, but you should understand that, as a literary device, if you use a collective phrasing that unavoidably includes me which is derogatory, condescending, questions development, or any combination thereof, you have also then unavoidably leveled that statement at me individually, and it is to that which I responded.

As for, "If you don't believe or haven't experienced this magic, it's because you are not ready. This is not an insult, just be patient.". Whether insult or not, it is factually untrue. Magic does not exist. Not even in the martial arts. Not even in really, really cool most-awesomest-ever internal Chinese martial arts. No one has experienced it, and not because no one in the history of humankind has yet been ready, but because it does not exist.

[mrtoes]

[karlson]

karlson,

Kudos for the mea culpa, but you should understand that, as a literary device, if you use a collective phrasing that unavoidably includes me which is derogatory, condescending, questions development, or any combination thereof, you have also then unavoidably leveled that statement at me individually, and it is to that which I responded.

As for, "If you don't believe or haven't experienced this magic, it's because you are not ready. This is not an insult, just be patient.". Whether insult or not, it is factually untrue. Magic does not exist. Not even in the martial arts. Not even in really, really cool most-awesomest-ever internal Chinese martial arts. No one has experienced it, and not because no one in the history of humankind has yet been ready, but because it does not exist.

Your interpretation of my post is revealing, thank you.