Chris Fleming wrote:
To be fair, you were the one who said if you have criticisms you ought to put up a clip of your own work. Got street fights?
Shooter wrote:Chris Fleming wrote:
To be fair, you were the one who said if you have criticisms you ought to put up a clip of your own work. Got street fights?
Ha! You are right, Chris. Fair enough. I'm sworn to silence now about clips I've posted. So I can't talk about a clip I posted a long time ago showing some action in one of my MMA matches where I allow myself to be attacked hockey-fight style (I wore a gi), and I'm not allowed to punch or kick to defend myself. The closest I've got to a streetfight clip, sorry. At the time I wanted to test a few ideas on defending and countering because I consider hockey-fight to be one of the top 3 'common' streetfighting situations along with the sucker-punch and rush/tackle. Having said all that, I'm not really criticising the material.
I've stated twice in this thread that the material is good basics. I'll go further and say that anyone who isn't familiar with what Tim is offering would benefit tremendously I'm sure if they were to buy the dvd and actually do the work. I have no doubt that Tim explains everything in straightforward, simple terms and shows how to graduate the training's intensity and levels of resistance. I have no problem seeing it for what it is.
I also pointed out that the structure of the training changes once enviro, terrain and context comes into the mix. All I saw was guys with bare feet on a mat. What I failed to say was how dramatically the change is once one makes that leap - how the whole focus of the training shifts.
Nobody who has watched the entire dvd mentioned anything in their review(s) about those ideas, so I was left with the impression that the material starts and finishes on the mat. I may be wrong, but I don't think what's shown in the clip is conducive to really breaking things down under 'realistic' conditions. The fact that Tim's guys think that's a slight against Tim - instead of seeing what I'm saying for what it is - says to me that the material they're covering on the dvd isn't being trained outdoors on hard, unforgiving surfaces, and that it makes what I'm saying moot to those of us who have trained that way. Again, that's not a slight. It's an observation of how Tims guys view the material through a different training experience that ignores a more 'realistic' level of exploration.
I'm just wondering how one can realistically train material for street fighting without putting it in its proper perspectives? I think it's a fair question that doesn't require me to post a clip to one-up anybody in order to substantiate the reasoning behind it.
kshurika wrote:Okay, I take a little time off and I see that this inane argument has gotten to five pages. Without naming names, I'd like to ask all of you (three) guys who think that Tim Cartmell doesn't train people for "realistic" situations:
1. Have you ever been trained by Tim Cartmell?
2. Have you ever grappled with or been thrown by Tim Cartmell?
3. If the answer to numbers 1 or 2 above is "yes", would you be willing to be thrown on the "cold hard ground" by Tim Cartmell and have it all captured on video?
Gosh, I have one more question: In your quest for badass realism have you ever willingly allowed yourself to be thrown onto concrete, asphalt or any other cold, hard (and very realistic) surface? If your answer is "yes", then you're a drooling moron.
Well that's interesting - cos I posed pretty much the same question to a couple of Tim's guys ragging on a Systema clip , and the response was they didn't even need to see how I trained to know it was useless. Not much consistency going on there - if you can't take it, don't dish it out
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