New private sub-section for internal power discussions

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: New private sub-section for internal power discussions

Postby lazyboxer on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:36 am

Dan,

What say you and Chris meet over a couple of beers? That usually does the trick :)
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Re: New private sub-section for internal power discussions

Postby middleway on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:36 am

Smack? Why?
All of the points can be made without any hitting or fighting as you will see when we meet. Internal power speaks for itself and those who want to debate it's veracity fail in person...every time they try. It is that obvious. The good thing is that in person; it gets settled, people make friends, compare notes and life goes on. I can promise you we will laugh are asses off.
The only recourse the naysayers have is the internet, adolescent insults and personal attacks.
Dan


Cause i will ask you too! ;) I like to feel things ... most people i have met i have asked to hit me in the body or arm so i can get an idea.
Yeh i have no doubts in internal power so really look forward to meeting you, training and having a laugh! :D
All the best.
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Re: New private sub-section for internal power discussions

Postby Bodywork on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:49 am

lazyboxer wrote:Dan,
What say you and Chris meet over a couple of beers? That usually does the trick :)

Hi Bud
No thanks. Not anyone I want to know. Think of how many have debated and disagreed over various things here and how they go about it? The nature of their arguments allows for a meet and greet. Responses like his close off any opportunity like that and are not something any forum should support.
Dan
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Re: New private sub-section for internal power discussions

Postby chud on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:50 am

This place has really gone downhill.
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Re: New private sub-section for internal power discussions

Postby somatai on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:58 am

I for one would be interested in having these discussions. To me they should all come from the place of investigation into what works and how it seems to move beyond the models of how we tend to think things work.....i find the more i know the more i don't know and the act of inquiring and trying to understand is about as good as it gets.....i know McKinely knows how everything works, but I for one don't and would be interested in comparing notes with others that are searching into all this in similar and unfamiliar ways
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Re: New private sub-section for internal power discussions

Postby Chris McKinley on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:00 am

I suppose the feeling is more or less mutual. My personal opinion is that Dan very likely has some very good information that would be of value to all practicing martial artists, not necessarily even limited to those who call themselves internal martial artists. Unfortunately, I've met lots and lots of really scary good folks with really scary good skills over a lot of years, and come to realize that it takes more than that for me to want to spend time or energy on them. I guess it all comes back around to whether or not they display some basic friendliness, courtesy and goodwill. Does their initial behavior indicate that they are interested in being helpful/making friends, or is it more self-serving? How they handle disagreement is also a pretty decent marker. Do they assume ill intent? Do they go ad hominem when one of their ideas is criticized? Do they lie? Do they ignore objective points? How fair are they in disagreement? All of things have nothing to do with skill level, but they speak strongly to character. I guess I've just been around too long and seen too much of it to give people a pass for being jerky just because they have martial skill. If Dan has friends in real life that are loyal to him and vice versa and who think of him as someone they want to hang around, that's great. Everybody should have that. That just isn't the vibe he's put forth on the forum, so I think I'll pass.

On further thought I will say this....Dmitri is someone I've met a couple of times and comes across as a really good guy, a genuinely nice and well-intentioned person. He's also met Dan and apparently says some nice things about him as well. That being the case, maybe it's just a matter of translation to internet. Maybe Dan's a really laid back great guy in person. I'll leave open the possibility on the strength of Dmitri's word alone.
Last edited by Chris McKinley on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New private sub-section for internal power discussions

Postby BaguaKicksAss on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:15 am

Uhm, why not just a sub forum that is public and boot any wankers who turn it into a pile of off topic crap? I can dream ;).
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Re: New private sub-section for internal power discussions

Postby BaguaKicksAss on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:20 am

There is a reason the private forum wouldn't turn into the nonsense arguing we are having on this thread right now? :P
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Re: New private sub-section for internal power discussions

Postby Bodywork on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:25 am

Chris McKinley wrote: I guess it all comes back around to whether or not they display some basic friendliness, courtesy and goodwill. Does their initial behavior indicate that they are interested in being helpful/making friends, or is it more self-serving? How they handle disagreement is also a pretty decent marker. Do they assume ill intent? Do they go ad hominem when one of their ideas is criticized? Do they lie? Do they ignore objective points? How fair are they in disagreement? That just isn't the vibe he's put forth on the forum, so I think I'll pass.

You can keep saying it, Chris but notice: I can quote you, you can't quote me.
All I ever argue is that most people here do not understand internal and it is evident in their discussion. To which you go after me personally: discussing me, my friends, my students, my character, on and on in your own colorful manner.
It's an irrefutable, transparent and unwarranted overreach.
Stop the bullshit and find a response from me to you equal to this:
Chris wrote:
You're too unstable, paranoid and even occasionally dishonest (as you just were with me in this very exchange) in conversation when people disagree with you.

Step up and at least own your own rhetoric, then you can move forward. You've already apologized twice and removed your own posts before for the same thing. I am not going to pretend we are the same for an imagined peace between us.
Just knock it off and stay on point...argue the point.
Dan
Last edited by Bodywork on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New private sub-section for internal power discussions

Postby Chris McKinley on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:28 am

I did quote you, Dan....right where you were lying about me and initializing the personal crap. I think I'm gonna let this be my last one on this. The readers don't need this exchange cluttering up the bandwidth. I'm against the idea of the sub-forum as it currently stands due to the fact that my questions have not been even addressed, nevermind answered to my satisfaction, and due to the consistent behavior I've seen you display. If the thing can be set up right, it might be a very good addition, but I can't see how your involvement would allow that to happen.
Chris McKinley

 

Re: New private sub-section for internal power discussions

Postby GrahamB on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:31 am

Can we relegate this thread to the new IP subforum? All this off topic bitching is distracting from real discussion in the main RSF forum. :P

It's BTDT, but at the very least Off Topic.
Last edited by GrahamB on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New private sub-section for internal power discussions

Postby MikeK on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:50 am

Simple Rule:
All memeber of this forum should post minimum of 20 mins video footage that in some small way represents their understanding and level of practice. So that we can all see where each other is comming from. Next people should support their post and opinions in threads with further video footage. This way we can minimize the confusion.
In an age when just about every mobile phone has a camera this is no big ask.

- If you are making some great claim about Santi or the like and you put up some clip of you doing Santi it will, by-in-large be quite obvious if you know what you are talking about.
- If you are an exponent of reality based martial art and train in the real deal, film it and show it, then we can see exactly what you mean, especially if your written posts come across unclearly to some of the "classically/traditionally" trained forum readers.
- If you have some great understanding of body mechnics and strucuture or some strong opinions on how power is expressed, film it so we can see and discuss what we have seen.

This forum could be a great source of knowledge but in reality by and large every single post consists of a version of the following:
I have a giant cock. My teacher has a giant cock. Although my cock is the most effective cock in the world I am not willing to show you my cock. I see your cock is not working as well as mine. My teacher is the only person who really learnt how to use his cock properly. I have used my cock more than the rest of you. I have traveled and meet the masters of the great cock...etc.
For me this is covers 99% of all posts on RSF even when they are couched in contempory science or classical litrature. this is why so few peopel with real knowledge contribute here. When all is said and done whats the point?

I am using the "Cock" as a metaphor please no literal videos.
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Re: New private sub-section for internal power discussions

Postby Dmitri on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:55 am

Everyone's got "issues", myself included... and the "range of likeness" (whatever the scientific/psychology term is for that) for each person is, naturally, somewhat different. People like one another and/or become friends when those "ranges" overlap.

Image

If Chris were 'A' and Dan -- 'B' and me -- 'C', then it may be possible for that 'ABC' area in the middle (and maybe even 'AB') to happen...
But it's also possible that 'A' and 'B' are further apart (A to left and B to right), so there's no 'AB' overlap there, or that it is very small.

I bet every one of us can think of two friends or good acquaintances of theirs who would be, in reality, extremely unlikely to get along well with one another, despite the fact that they both get along great with you.

IME meetings in person usually solve 99% of the online BS that tends to stem from various "issues" people have, from varying ability to express themselves online, to having hidden agendas, to the need of some sort of (sub)conscious posturing, to... whatever. In person MOST (not all, but definitely most, IME) of that BS simply doesn't come up, because human interaction is SO much more involved a process (tone of voice, facial expressions/gesturing, micro-movement of the body, pheromones, etc.) than a mere exchange of written words.

FWIW, I would suggest for all parties here to not burn any bridges based on that type of exchange, at least for the reason stated above, i.e. what we do here sitting at our keyboards is NOT full human communication and should NOT be confused with it, and I wouldn't make any big decisions re. who is who or whether I'd like to meet them based solely on these online interactions. (Unless of course the exchange goes REALLY freakin' far, -- like a real physical challenge, life threats, etc.)

I think maybe if people remembered that simple fact, online behavior in general might become a lot better because you simply wouldn't put as much value into it, and realize that you're not "talking to a live person", but simply "exchanging written words with your computer" (which can be read and replied to by some stranger thousands of miles away whom you might never even meet).

On the other hand, and for these same reasons, I've always tried to follow a simple rule, "never say anything online that you wouldn't say to someone in person". Which you guys already know of course, but just thought I'd say it anyway, because it's a REALLY important one, as far as basic online civility goes.
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Re: New private sub-section for internal power discussions

Postby Bodywork on Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 am

On the other hand, and for these same reasons, I've always tried to follow a simple rule, "never say anything online that you wouldn't say to someone in person". Which you guys already know of course, but just thought I'd say it anyway, because it's a REALLY important one, as far as basic online civility goes.

That's all fine Dmitri and I appreciate the effort, except only one of us crosses the line and uses the type of language Chris is known for that in a bar would more than likely see him decked for his trouble. What would I get decked for? Saying someone doesn't understand internals? Seriously? ;)

I am less concerned about language-it really goes to issues of Chris attacking a person for expressing a point since he has no counter argument to offer.
On the other hand, I will say anything in person I have said here -and I have many times, face to face-as it is consistently supportable and not personal. I remain consistent and on point.
Dan
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Re: New private sub-section for internal power discussions

Postby Dmitri on Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:20 am

I know, but that is in part exactly what I'm talking about... You're taking his "online persona" and online communication as "real". They are, but... they are not really, for reasons I mentioned above. Chris means every word I'm sure, and he's an honest guy, and a professional in a related field, but the fact remains, -- until you are talking in person, you're not really "talking". Even on the phone it's not "true communication", for people who never met, although it's already a hell of a lot better than via written word...

I do notice that at times your tone of voice I mean, "tone of typing" :) does sound "harsher" online than in person, although you probably don't (can't?) notice... (Or maybe it's just me? :-/)

Anyway... I'm not trying to play Mother Teresa here, but I was just hoping... eh, never mind.

You're big boys, you'll figure it out, one way or another. I was just hoping it would be the more peaceful way, but what the hell, LET'S BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D

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Last edited by Dmitri on Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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