Chen sword, begginer q.?

[MaartenSFS]

Sorry, I had to comment.. this thread has been amusing.

[liokault]

Traditional sword weigh between 650 and 800g, with a point of balance some 13 / 16 cm before the guard.

But there is no point in a modern guy buying a sword based on the needs of a 60kg 5' tall chinese guy of 100 years ago. The jian I have seen in museums are tiny, hardly more than long daggers.

[wiesiek]

I work in the Krakow`s Historic Museum, we have really big Armoury ,
so
I have quite possibility to get the feel real steel,
it is real challenge to use double handed mid ages sword for forms practise,
while in one hand, is hard to make cross ,
Andy,
rapier is relay nice piece of long sword, but handle and guard doesn`t work good in Chen form...
are you jokin` btw?

[LaoDan]

Traditional sword weigh between 650 and 800g, with a point of balance some 13 / 16 cm before the guard.

But there is no point in a modern guy buying a sword based on the needs of a 60kg 5' tall chinese guy of 100 years ago. The jian I have seen in museums are tiny, hardly more than long daggers.

The ‘traditional’ sword weights are based on antiques from the late Qing into the early Republic period, and they are probably shorter and lighter than we would typically use today. I only have one antique jian and it has a blade length longer than most in this timeframe. For my 5’9” height the antique with a 31” blade (measured from the junction of the hand-guard and the handle) is perhaps slightly short (32” would be more ideal) and weighs about 860 grams, slightly heavier than the average range given for ‘traditional’ swords. So, if you are my height or taller and desire a proportional length for your sword, then your sword would likely also be above the ‘traditional’ average in weight.

Dan

[liokault]

Traditional sword weigh between 650 and 800g, with a point of balance some 13 / 16 cm before the guard.

But there is no point in a modern guy buying a sword based on the needs of a 60kg 5' tall chinese guy of 100 years ago. The jian I have seen in museums are tiny, hardly more than long daggers.

The ‘traditional’ sword weights are based on antiques from the late Qing into the early Republic period, and they are probably shorter and lighter than we would typically use today. I only have one antique jian and it has a blade length longer than most in this timeframe. For my 5’9” height the antique with a 31” blade (measured from the junction of the hand-guard and the handle) is perhaps slightly short (32” would be more ideal) and weighs about 860 grams, slightly heavier than the average range given for ‘traditional’ swords. So, if you are my height or taller and desire a proportional length for your sword, then your sword would likely also be above the ‘traditional’ average in weight.

Dan

Dan, that's really interesting, please can we see some pick of your sword? I do like old jian.

I think you have been lucky to find a 31 inch blade, but I'm surprised you find it too short. I had a custom jian made, it's 32 inches long in total, including handle. Even then it's slightly too long for me. I'm also about the same height as you.

[LaoDan]

Liokault,

By today’s standard I live a rather primitive life – no digital camera, internet connection only at work... – so I cannot provide pictures. When I get home I’ll measure the jian to be certain of the length (I posted from memory, but I have not measured it in years).

The following Brennan translation from a 1960 sword book (Startling-Rainbow Sword) gives the same personalized measurements that I learned, although some Taijiquan teachers prefer an even longer sword.

http://brennantranslation.wordpress.com/2014/01/30/startling-rainbow-sword-jinghong-jian/

...To conform the sword length to your body, hold the handle in a reverse grip with your left hand. The sword tip should reach no farther than headtop level and go at least as far as ear level, though I myself think it is best to go by ear height rather than head height. [He does not specify whether it is to be level with the top of the ear or the earlobe, but he seems to mean the top of the ear, going by the photo for Posture 1.] Another way is stand the sword vertically with the tip on the ground, in which case the pommel should be at navel level.
The ordinary overall length of the whole sword is three feet and four inches, or 1 meter.
The breakdown of that meter is thus: The pommel takes up about 4 cm, the handle 14 cm, being the proper length to fit the grip of a hand, the hilt about 5 cm, and the sword body 77 cm.
The width of the sword body is about 3.75 cm, gradually tapering so that at the tip it is about 2.75 cm. The tip is the equivalent of a melon seed so it is rounded like a silken streamer curving in the air. This is the manner of a heroic sword. The spine is also like a melon seed, as is the rear section of the blade bulging to both sides of the spine.
The appropriate weight is about two and a quarter pounds.
These measurements are made according to average strength, build, size, and height, and are gauged to provide for the most nimbleness and agility.

According to this measurement, my antique jian would be about 1” shorter than ideal for my height.

Another book (1931 Wudang Sword) also gives some information.

http://brennantranslation.wordpress.com/2014/06/01/wudang-sword/

For a training [wood] sword, if you are below six feet and under a hundred and twenty pounds, you are of a normal build. Your wooden training sword should in overall length be between three feet (English feet) and three feet, six inches. The sword handle should be between six inches and eight inches...

For a performance sword, ideally it should be a steel sword with some springiness to it. If you are of a normal build, the length should be the same as your training sword...

Here the personalized length seems to be less important and everyone considered to be of ‘normal build’ would use swords of similar length (varying by only ~6” overall length). The handling characteristics of the sword are probably more important than the length, so I am not sure that length really matters (‘it ain’t the meat, it’s the motion’ to quote an old Blues song), except for competition standards (if one is interested in that).

Dan

[Andy_S]

Wiesiek:

You live in Cracow? And you work in a historical museum?

Mate, you need to count your blessings.

Not many people live in a truly beautiful city doing a truly interesting job. IME, one of the best pieces of advice anyone can receive is this: Don't take what you have for granted. Savour it!

[LaoDan]

Liokault,

My historic jian is about 39” (100cm) long with a blade about 31.5” (81cm) long as measured from where the handle meets the hand-guard (it has a ‘ace-of-spades’ type of hand-guard, so if measured from where the blade protrudes past the guard, then subtract about 1.5” from the blade length).

It is my understanding that this is near the longer end of what is typical for late Qing to early Republic swords. According to the personalized measurements given in my last post, the ideal length for my 5’9” height would be slightly longer (about 40” total with a slightly longer blade).

Dan

[wiesiek]

Double yes, Andy
but, air here is very poor, in winter- toxic!

I found out yesterday , that less than 2 kg training sword, allow me to feel my wrist, arms and mingmen again
Didn`t felt this way on the beggining,
this kinda of ZZ with the tool in the hands, when you`re waiting for correction of the posture is nice

[Wanderingdragon]

anyone got any pics of the types of swords they are working with ?

[wiesiek]

look there:
http://sevenstarstrading.com/site/hanwei/cuttingjian/

[wiesiek]

re.: sword in SD
I know, that our board members had some problems with the training with the weapon on the open space .
Even in the London with the long knights tradition .
However here, not only our small group of 7 are waving the naked steel during summer in the park.
Bunch of heavy armoured knights fights near by, from time to time, I sow also a guys with the TCMAs spears and training knives , its not China, but we have lot of MA schools...
anyway,
I never was questioned or stopped by cops when train or carry the weapon /I`ve been running with katana from time to time, long time ago too/.
It is kind a of obvious here, that you`re training
so
I do not expect any troubles if I will carry the jian with SD in my mind.
Using it for real is forbidden of course,
unless you have to deal with "excessive amount of force" - couple of punks with the knives, for ex.
Then , - YES , Andy -
- I may consider to carry the jian, as the tool of the choice, one day, when I will know what Im doing .

More amusement for the Maartens

[wiesiek]

Have to report, that
`cause this thread recommendation, and with help of our board member I get "Hanwei" sword from S.R. 7* company
weight - 978 g.
extremely handy and with really, very "serious outlook "
and much harder to train, than whatever was previously in my hand!
my writs goin` to love it.

It is excellent piece of steel !
recommended

[Teazer]

here in Krakow - Machete is the favourite tool of the choice on the streets .

Machetes make for cheap intro training swords. Over here you can get one with a 24" blade for $5. Then just grind off the edge and point, maybe change how much it tapers depending on preference and it's ready to go. Sparring or drills with a lot of impact will take small notches out of the edge since the steel is relatively soft. Just grind it down a bit more every now and again. After a while, toss it away and get another.

[wiesiek]

60 cm blade for 5 bucks looks like real deal !
but sword has the 18 cm long handle + 5 cm ending tip and 4cm guard, blade itself is 74 cm,
so, while difference of the blades sizes isn`t a big deal, handling the weapons , is what`s counts for me, the most.
I have problems with delicate full twisting move in some cases, for ex.
anyway,
good idea to have some learning by fun,
thx, Teazer