Tangible feelings of Qi

[taiwandeutscher]

Thanks, Bob, for pointing out Unschuld's stance more clearly, which turned more negative over the yrs, that's true.

Still, he guided me as a 2nd prof through my PhD in Yijing studies, also a little bit in connection to Chinese medicine, and we worked for several yrs. under his guidance on his huge Neijing project. I have found him as on of the most knowledgeable persons in the field, and in defense of his personal inclinations, I witnessed how often he had to cope with esoteric ethno medics, who didn't have a clue.

I myself would agree with his view that CTM was a kind of a proto science and not a science in the modern sense of that word.

That doesn't stop me from Tangible Feelings of Qi during my MA practice, but I found that sitting in oblivion (in a period of injury) did make me feel even more!

[escher]

do you have the Chinese characters and pin-yin for? "Real becomes fake, fake becomes real"
that is so true!

I think what he said was 真亦假，假亦真 (zhēn yì jiǎ, jiǎ yì zhēn).

[Bob]

Thanks, Bob, for pointing out Unschuld's stance more clearly, which turned more negative over the yrs, that's true.

Still, he guided me as a 2nd prof through my PhD in Yijing studies, also a little bit in connection to Chinese medicine, and we worked for several yrs. under his guidance on his huge Neijing project. I have found him as on of the most knowledgeable persons in the field, and in defense of his personal inclinations, I witnessed how often he had to cope with esoteric ethno medics, who didn't have a clue.

I myself would agree with his view that CTM was a kind of a proto science and not a science in the modern sense of that word.

That doesn't stop me from Tangible Feelings of Qi during my MA practice, but I found that sitting in oblivion (in a period of injury) did make me feel even more!

I never "throw the baby out with the bath water".

Actually I am not surprised - In his book Medicine in China (a reissued edition) he sort of lays it all out and kind of leaves it up to the individual to decide - doesn't conclusively say its pseudoscientific magical thinking. All of the Cambridge historians/medical anthropologists often use him to review their own research or cite him extensively. However, his latest writings seem cast more doubt upon the efficacy and use of Chinese Medicine.

The way I am reading things now (which may change as I learn more) that a significant portion Chinese Medicine's changes were an adaption to its encounter with Western medicine and the pressures to modernize starting in the 1900s.

That doesn't deny the major changes imposed by communist party in the 1950s but it seems that cultural/historical changes were already in the making one way or another and it was largely a question of which institutions/ideologies would prevail and have the most influence.

Western science has and had a great influence on Chinese Medicine. Look recently at how the EU has regulated herbal usage and the regulated test trails that Chinese medicine faces in the US under the auspices of the FDA.

According to some researchers the unification of Chinese Medicine was largely shaped by the attempt to abolish it in the 1900s.

Some authors believe that without its integration with Western medicine or at least its attempted integration, it would have never survived.

Without some form of standardization the global impact of Chinese Medicine in the West would have been relegated to the Chinatowns of the diaspora and would remain quite fragmented. [Japan, Korea, Hong Kong and other would continue to develop Chinese Medicine but its influence would likely have remained in Asia].

Also without the institutionalization of Chinese Medicine it would not have established "medical schools" and been relegated to a fragmented "journeyman/apprenticeship" method of transmission which also would limit its advancement and usage.

It just seem the evolution of Chinese Medicine is much more complex than I previously understood it to be and for better or worse it cannot avoid partially integrating with Western medicine.

I think I might prefer the development of separate systems with an occasional bridging.

Some feel that not all healing can be reduced to biomedicine. The split is working its way through the US, partially driven by profitability e.g. the Cleveland Clinic's establishment of Oriental Medicine and the whole integrative movement/integrative programs started by Dr. Andrew Weil at the University of Arizona.

http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/inde ... itals.html
CLEVELAND, Ohio – Changes made to state laws have opened the door for certified herbal therapists to prescribe custom Chinese herbal therapy blends and traditional formulas to patients within a clinical practice.

Instead of having to travel out of the state for herbal therapy – to use alone or as a supplement to other prescription medications – Northeast Ohio residents now have two options close to home.

Chinese herbs may be used for a variety of things, such as to alleviate chronic conditions such as sinusitis and insomnia; to help decrease cold and flu symptoms and pain; to regulate menstrual cycles in women trying to conceive; and to improve digestion.

Other candidates for herbal therapy are patients who have multiple, complex symptoms; have exhausted other medical treatment options; or need additional therapy to counteract the side effects of prescription medication.

In early 2013, the State Medical Board of Ohio began regulating the practice of Oriental medicine, which includes the practice of acupuncture and the use of herbal therapy.

http://www.theintegratorblog.com/

Recent:

•Integrative Medicine, Complementary and Alternative Medicine and Health Round-up #84: October 2014

•From Google Alerts: Links to Integrative Medicine in Health Systems and Communities from September 2014

•Gratitude to Integrative Medicine and Health's Retiring Champion U.S. Senator Tom Harkin

•Is the Cleveland Clinic/Functional Medicine Partnership a 'Tipping Point' for Integrative Medicine and Health?

•Integrative Medicine, Complementary and Alternative Medicine and Health Round-up #83: September 2014

•Michael Levin on Academic Medicine and Hospitals in Their Campaign to Protect the Medical Industry

•From Google Alerts: Links to Integrative Medicine in Health Systems and Communities from August 2014


Sorry about the momentary co-optation.

Its an area of research I have been pursuing for some time but more along the business/strategic mgt/competitive advantage perspective.

[taiwandeutscher]

"...I think I might prefer the development of separate systems with an occasional bridging...."

Yes, Bob, me, too.

That is why I did look more on the development of the Chin. Trad. Med. over here in Taiwan. They did great, had even more western contacts, but never needed Marx nor Lenin! But then, they never wanted to be legitimated by western science and they don't want to sell their stuff to the west.

[D_Glenn]

I didn't it even pick up on the modern history of tcm part, it was so brief, one of the more interesting parts is right at the end when he talks about how the classic books of Chinese Medicine were written in a manner where they refer to the Jianghu and that even back then there were rampant charlatans and fakes.

I found an old post of Ken's on the Jianghu:

In the 20th century the term came to refer to life on the margins, the side of life verging on and well into the criminal. Even today you will hear people over 40 referring to someone of less than stellar ethics as "jianghu", or they will say that in the past he "travelled in dubiuos company" "走江湖" （zou jianghu）。 In Shanghai and Tianjin in particular， to ”zou jiang hu“ generally implied that one had shady dealings， or was a part of the criminal underworld。

But as Andrew talks about throughout the collective history of China the Jianghu were always "Dubious", not just in the 20th century.

In Yeniseri's post:

This link is one of the better sites I have come across regarding the teaching. "modernization" and subsequent "invention" of some of what is practiced today!
Do not take this as absolute as there are some great practitioners out there who seek to bridge the gap of ancient and what is called modern knowledge.

Enjoy!
http://www.classicalchinesemedicine.org ... risis-tcm/

The Jianghu are mentioned:

Around the same time, the outlawed “communist bandit” Mao Zedong promulgated thoughts that were very similar to those of his nationalist adversaries. In 1942, he instructed his guerilla government to uproot all shamanic beliefs and superstitions in the Yan’an area and establish model public health villages.6 Around the same time, he wrote that “old doctors, circus entertainers, snake oil salesmen, and street hawkers are all of the same sort.”7 This brief line would have a truly devastating impact twenty-five years later when Mao’s works became the one and only source for the country’s definition of political truth.

Where he put the "old doctors" in the same class as the Jianghu, and then later:

As if to set a good example for the new course that he had outlined, Mao publicly ingested the traditional remedy Yin Qiao San (Lonicera and Forsythia Powder) when he fell ill during the historic announcement of the Great Leap Forward at the Chengdu Conference in 1957. He restrained his onetime prejudice against “snake oil salesmen” and allowed Li Shizhi and Peng Lüxiang, both first generation elders of Chengdu College of TCM, to be present at his bedside for an entire night.

Where he considered his TCM doctors not to be Jianghu.


.

[D_Glenn]

I'm going off vague memories and some stuff Bailewen had found (basically on Baike, or that's where I found it again), but the term 江湖 Jianghu, or 江湖骗子 jiāng​hú​piàn​zi (swindler; cheat; traveling con man) goes back to the book 莊子 Zhuanzi, written by 莊周 Zhuang Zhou (Born 369 BC, Died 286 BC age 83) and his short story: “相忘于江湖” Forgot their [good times/ selves] when they lived in the rivers and lakes. and is about two fish are caught in an isolated spring/ pool of water that is cut off from the rivers and lakes and the pool they've become trapped in is drying up and they have to do whatever is necessary to try and survive until the rains come back.

This sort of became how nobody really sets out or embarks on the journey of becoming a great martial artist, or Doctor of Chinese Medicine, or Great Actor in a play, etc. with bad intentions, their intentions are to be heroic, a hero to the common man, but somewhere along their journey circumstances come up where there's ethical or moral decisions to be made. Some of the decisions may be like in order to further practice martial arts they have to join the triad gangs, or a Doctor or Herbalist who needs to make a living selling herbs and they have to lie and sell cheap herbs but say they're something better than they actually are, or a painter/calligrapher who has to paint forgeries to make a living, etc. They've forgotten that they used to live in the rivers and lakes and find themselves living in muddy pools/ gutters.

Nowadays you have many Internal Martial Artists who, originally set out to become great Internal martial artists, but the skills never came due to either lack of good teacher or not understanding how to interpret the classics, etc., any number of possibilities but without the actual skills, despite them putting in the hours and years of work, they have some skills but they go to the parks and use 'Jianghu' tactics when doing push hands, like, placing their self in a position where there's nothing behind them but open grass, but there's a park bench about 10 feet behind the other person, who then has to worry about that bench and possibly falling over it if they get pushed out, and/or dubious foot placement in push hands, claiming the other person doesn't know the rules.

So you could say that Jianghu are people who forgot the reasons why they started, or there's also a generational thing, kids born into the life of Jianghu who only know the gutters and dream of getting out, that's where the romantic ideals of it stem from.

Here's another good clip, for about 20 minutes of this clip he's just reading from a chinese dictionary, so you can skip over that part, although there is some interesting words that I never knew, but the important stuff is after that, and it relates to the original clip on this thread and, he doesn't use the word but he also talks about the Jianghu and a lot of martial stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1YilBJY-rk



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[D_Glenn]

And Bob, here's where he actually discusses the history/ modern Chinese medicine and it's the focus of the lecture:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XyfG2lITRY


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[Bob]

Much appreciated Devlin. Thanks.

[yeniseri]

Nowadays you have many Internal Martial Artists who, originally set out to become great Internal martial artists, but the skills never came due to either lack of good teacher or not understanding how to interpret the classics, etc., any number of possibilities but without the actual skills, despite them putting in the hours and years of work, they have some skills but they go to the parks and use 'Jianghu' tactics when doing push hands, like, placing their self in a position where there's nothing behind them but open grass, but there's a park bench about 10 feet behind the other person, who then has to worry about that bench and possibly falling over it if they get pushed out, and/or dubious foot placement in push hands, claiming the other person doesn't know the rules.

There is about 3 generational divide regarding the social milieu (people/families), a language divide and an educational divide as words and meaning have been decided beforehand how they will be used so that is eben more case for archaic ignorance when the initial impetus was to "Get rid of the Old and bring in the New (society). I do not know the exact cutoff point but Internal Martial Arts is a recent syndrome keeping in mind that prior to 1900, martial arts were part of the jianghu, the bottom of the social order when compared to the scholars, government officials, etc so in that sense, they wer considered lower than dirt, street sellers, etc hence the definition of their craft.
With the founding of the Shanghai Public Wushu organizational culture, stuff changed along with the purported increased literacy of those who did CMA. Those who were martial artists prior to the 1900s, were actually such because they exchanged skill, learned from each other so the Dachengquan (Yiquan) founder and his POV actually speaks to the interim period where the less skill tended to be called out because of that atmosphere of "openness". If I recall correctly, the reason for the Beijing Yang forms was that taijiquan was not know and the education initiative to make it available to the greater society. Wang Peisheng is alleged to have created a shortened form but he was unable to propogate it due to the political purges of the day!

[D_Glenn]

I do not know the exact cutoff point but Internal Martial Arts is a recent syndrome keeping in mind that prior to 1900, martial arts were part of the jianghu, the bottom of the social order when compared to the scholars, government officials, etc so in that sense, they wer considered lower than dirt, street sellers, etc hence the definition of their craft.

Yang Luchan was teaching officials of the imperial court in Beijing in the 1850s, and history is muddled but good martial artists were probably held in good regard for a long time, maybe even going back to Qi Jiguang's time or before that, because he talks about the countrywide fame that some martial art schools had, and if memory serves some of those martial artists he mentioned gained their fame almost 100 years before the publication of his book.

I don't think the martial artists were that low on the social ladder, if they were good, then they fought, which makes us/ them 'Baoli' (violent), but look at is as similar to what happened in America and around the world with the UFC. There was the not really known/underground full-contact karate and all-style full-contact tournaments before UFC but those were kept sort of on the downlow, and it was a way for people who wanted to test their skills against other skilled people, so it was controlled, not like fightclubs. The early UFC fights, some of those fights were not between equally matched opponents, one of those fights I remember a huge ex-marine (I think) was dropping like 10 elbow strikes into the 50lbs lighter unconscious guy's temple before the fight was stopped. When they cleaned it up a bit and made it appear that 'Yes these fighters are 'Baoli' but they're entering the cage willingly, so it's okay.', and then you have Tito Ortiz on Donald Trump's "Celebrity Apprentice" (and his porn-star wife Jenna Jamison making appearances and bringing in some donations which is a whole other definition of Jianghu). And now it's okay to like full-contact fighters, but only the good ones, there's still amateur MMA tournaments where the participants are looked on as thugs, and now UFC has their own FOX Sports show, so it's really gone mainstream. So look at about from the 1840s to 1940s China as being similar to what's going on now with UFC that's the social strata that they held- not quite violent thugs, as they would only challenge other skilled martial artists to a fight, but not 'jianghu' or triad gangs who would use martial arts to beat up other gangs or innocent victims.

So Chinese Martial Artists were not Jianghu, Baoli yes, but sometimes they had to resort to hiding with Jianghu or getting help from the Jianghu if they got in trouble and needed to get to another city and hide out for awhile, like Fan Zhiyong had to do, but he killed a triad gang leader and had to get help from the rival triad gang to get out of the city and live under a different name for a little while.


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[yeniseri]

We have a strong difference of opinion on the matter but that is OK. I am probably way off so I concede to you on the matter that my associations tended to be "scholars" and a few military individuals, who based on the pre 1911 (end of Qing) where CMA were considered 'low class' based on the social structure. The new literacy was what changed the outlook that CMA was a national treasure and as such, habits, insights and public education for most, changed the CMA perception to what we have today. "Low class" does not mean ignored since good CMA people provided part and parcel of the escort profession.
In South China, CMA people were "entertainers' amongst them and were often the ones who transmitted authentic Chinese operatic skill, with all its idiosyncratic propaganda that served the burgeoining film industry and its Water Margin novels plots.

[Michael]

There are a lot of videos available and I've been checking them out. Maybe this will be helpful for others who want to download and view them over time since there are so many. Here are the youtube URL's and descriptions for a weekend seminar of 12 vids. http://www.traditionalstudies.org

Tangible Acupuncture: Weekend Seminar
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJ6Ih12FYfxhhdcjWnmnEGiScO6UGhKXS
by traditionalstudies 12 videos 818 views 6 hours

01
Chinese Medicine: Intro to Tangible Acupuncture Weekend Seminar part 01
20:58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv1wgrvjSDQ
Published on Jan 9, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/user/traditionalstudies/videos
As opposed to the Evening Lecture Overview already on our site, this Intro to Tangible Acupuncture is the full weekend seminar taught in December 2013 NYC. Be sure to sign up for the Acupuncture Intensive Training Programs this year in NYC happening in 4 modules: March, May, September & November. There are only 10 spots left as of this posting!

02
Chinese Medicine: Intro to Tangible Acupuncture Weekend Seminar part 02
19:13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq8KBBgVnbI
Published on Jan 10, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/user/traditionalstudies/videos
As opposed to the Evening Lecture Overview already on our site, this Intro to Tangible Acupuncture is the full weekend seminar taught in December 2013 NYC. Be sure to sign up for the Acupuncture Intensive Training Programs this year in NYC happening in 4 modules: March, May, September & November. There are only 10 spots left as of this posting!

03
Chinese Medicine: Intro to Tangible Acupuncture Weekend Seminar part 03
18:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwTHYFzHlgM
Published on Jan 11, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/user/traditionalstudies/videos
As opposed to the Evening Lecture Overview already on our site, this Intro to Tangible Acupuncture is the full weekend seminar taught in December 2013 NYC. Be sure to sign up for the Acupuncture Intensive Training Programs this year in NYC happening in 4 modules: March, May, September & November. There are only 10 spots left as of this posting!

04
Chinese Medicine: Intro to Tangible Acupuncture Weekend Seminar part 04
13:11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5I4m61kZDY
Published on Jan 11, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/user/traditionalstudies/videos
End of Saturday first lecture--Be sure to sign up for the Acupuncture Intensive Training Programs this year in NYC happening in 4 modules: March, May, September & November. There are only 10 spots left as of this posting!

05
Chinese Medicine: Intro to Tangible Acupuncture Weekend Seminar part 05 pulling qi
1:10.54
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQUwWK3up38
Published on Jan 18, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/user/traditionalstudies/videos
This hour + long segment covers the importance of having a Qi practice and then features a walk through discussion of the Eight Storing Qi & Developing Sensitivity Practices. Theory lecture and demonstrations are in the other parts of this seminar video series.

06
Chinese Medicine: Intro to Tangible Acupuncture Weekend Seminar part 06
33:57
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrrw83jDWig
Published on Jan 13, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/user/traditionalstudies/videos
First demonstration of Tangible Acupuncture Needling techniques. Be sure to sign up for the Acupuncture Intensive Training Programs this year in NYC happening in 4 modules: March, May, September & November. There are only 10 spots left as of this posting!

07
Chinese Medicine: Intro to Tangible Acupuncture Weekend Seminar part 07
28:38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnI-pSb8KAg
Published on Jan 13, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/user/traditionalstudies/videos
Discussion and Q&A after first group practicum, ending Day 01. Be sure to sign up for the Acupuncture Intensive Training Programs this year in NYC happening in 4 modules: March, May, September & November. There are only 10 spots left as of this posting!

08
Chinese Medicine: Intro to Tangible Acupuncture Weekend Seminar part 08 pulling qi
1:01.05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoY8_Juuzpg
Published on Jan 20, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/user/traditionalstudies/videos

09
Chinese Medicine: Intro to Tangible Acupuncture Weekend Seminar part 09
20:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ytkoFj8hB8
Published on Jan 14, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/user/traditionalstudies/videos
This is the second (Sunday) lecture of the weekend seminar. Visit our site for 2014 program information!

10
Chinese Medicine: Intro to Tangible Acupuncture Weekend Seminar part 10
18:01
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_5nmLkPifI
Published on Jan 14, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/user/traditionalstudies/videos
Sunday lecture on Tangible Acupuncture & the influences affecting our patients' Qi.

11
Chinese Medicine: Intro to Tangible Acupuncture Weekend Seminar part 11
23:44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-pQglv4B7E
Published on Jan 14, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/user/traditionalstudies/videos
Second demonstration of Tangible Acupuncture at the seminar. Learn to do these techniques in the 2014 intensive training courses in NYC--information on our site!

12
Chinese Medicine: Intro to Tangible Acupuncture Weekend Seminar part 12
41:02
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaBMoyf5NU0
Published on Jan 16, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/user/traditionalstudies/videos
This is the final wrap up of the Introduction to Tangible Acupuncture weekend seminar. Learn these acupuncture skills and incorporate them into your practice by enrolling in the in depth training programs starting March 2014. Information is on our site!

[D_Glenn]

http://m.youtube.com/channel/UCY4EkbroqF10wHvlJl25ZBw is the link I'm using on my phone. Click on the playlist tab to find the videos.

.

[D_Glenn]

We have a strong difference of opinion on the matter but that is OK. I am probably way off so I concede to you on the matter that my associations tended to be "scholars" and a few military individuals, who based on the pre 1911 (end of Qing) where CMA were considered 'low class' based on the social structure. The new literacy was what changed the outlook that CMA was a national treasure and as such, habits, insights and public education for most, changed the CMA perception to what we have today. "Low class" does not mean ignored since good CMA people provided part and parcel of the escort profession.
In South China, CMA people were "entertainers' amongst them and were often the ones who transmitted authentic Chinese operatic skill, with all its idiosyncratic propaganda that served the burgeoining film industry and its Water Margin novels plots.

I didn't mean to imply that they were ever really that high up in the social strata. No matter what social circle they were allowed into, they were always one faux pas away from being kicked back into the gutter.
In one of the videos I posted above Andrew talks about how in 1986 the foster family he lived with in Taiwan told him not to mention to any of their neighbors that he practiced martial arts.

He also mentions how southern chinese martial arts society doesn't really reflect the Northern martial community, two different worlds.

And my information comes from people who lived in the times, so they were essentially looked upon as being Jianghu by most of society, but they didn't consider themselves that as they were at the highest level of the martial strata:

Martial artists are strictly creatures of jiang hu. In terms of making a living, martial artist work falls into 4 levels: the lowest is called xing, literally smell of blood - either yours or others. This is where someone paid you to risk your own life for his. You have a travel a lot (constantly venturing into the unknown), fight a lot, and not expect to live too long if violence became part of everyday life. The next level is not much higher: you're in one place, protecting someone's home. You don't have the danger of travel and fighting in unknown turf, but now you're risking your life for someone's property. The third level is much better, where you teach, but you don't have your own place. Then finally the highest level is where you teach, and have your own place. This is where you need highest level of skill, because now all challengers know where to find you. Even then you're still living in the world of jian hu: the unwritten rule being if the challenger won, your place is his now, and you have to leave the area. This is true regardless how high level you are: just look at the teachers of kings and princes Yang Luchan and Dong Haichuan displaced on their ways up.

Since Wuxia novels talk about martial artists, they inevitably talk about their adventures in this world. Remember even the 'normal' society of feudal era are highly unjust ("You're either the hammer or the nail" - Thomas Jefferson). Martial artists who use their skills to right wrongs when law fails the weak are heroes. Of all the denizens of jiang hu, they at least have one source of power in the form physical violence. Others in that world (ex. street performers) could only be passive victims when oppressed, so don't get such glamor treatments, their lives are not as (potentially) exciting/glamorous. Also because in the traditional society, jiang hu in the end is a very sad, violent, unjust place, because this is not a place ruled by the civilized norm of society.

Majority of people in feudal society do not live in jiang hu, so we can say it's sort of a fringe. People speak of 'lun luo jian hu', of fallen into jian ju (the way we say someone fell into a drug habit and start hanging with low life crowd). The best modern day example is Breaking Bad, where the main character went from being an average law-abiding teacher to meth maker and drug kingpin - he existed the normal society and descended into the world of jiang hu.

So Jiang Hu can also refer to a state of mind:

For example when idealistic scholars get into government, only to find out politics in a feudal society is so unjust, cruel, and capricious, they would sigh and say "Those people who are 'below' me, the farmers and the average citizens, they perform the same labor every day, they don't make much money, get much fame, but their lives are stable, they are bound by clear cut laws, they can know contentment. My position may be high, but any bad thing can happen at any body at any time, 'to be companion of the king is to be companion to a wild tiger', I live in the world of jiang hu."

Occasionally it could have positive meaning, for example if the official above sees through everything and decided to retreat into a life of rural leisure. He is said to 'retreat into jiang hu'. But here jiang hu means remote nature, far away from avarices and evils of man.

So skipping over Dong Haichuan and Yin Fu brings us to my great-grandteacher Men Baozhen, who took over the School from Yin Fu and had to defend the schools honor. Men Baozhen was born into a wealthy Manchurian family and studied to take the military exams. He passed everything except the horse riding skills, he's 6'6" and he was thrown from the horse and injured his leg or something. Then I think his parents talked him into studying to be a scholar, and I don't know for sure if he actually went on to take those tests but he continued to study martial arts even though his chances of passing the military exam had passed by. So he became a pretty good martial artist and somehow got to challenge Yin Fu to a fight, he lost to him, and then focused all his energy towards learning Baguazhang and the medical side of Baguazhang. Wen Peiting was a Doctor within the Imperial court and had learned and worked with Dong Haichuan, after Dong Haichuan died he started working with Yin Fu on the medical side. After the Boxer Rebellion he was out of a job in the palace and he stayed with Yin Fu, who in exchange for more medical teachings he began to teach Wen Peiting martial arts. After 1911 I think he lived with Men Baozhen. And Wen Peiting would later also teach Xie Peiqi his medical knowledge, while Xie was also learning the medical and martial arts from Men Baozhen.

What's the point of this brief history? It's that they were in high society no matter what. Men Baozhen was a scholar, a CCM doctor, a Baguazhang martial artist and head of the Yin Fu school; later invited by a wealthy landowner and official to teach his son Baguazhang, and MBZ brought Gong Baotian and Ma Gui along with him, stating that he would only move into their mansion if GBT and Ma Gui were invited; later he inherited an Antique Store/ Warehouse from his parents. He was living the good life. Obviously this is not the case for the other 98% of martial artists in China, but it's where our thoughts about being/ not-being 'Jianghu' come from. 1958 and onward were obviously up and down for everyone, so skip those years and bring us to current times- 1996 to now, and how the word is used now, is back to how Men Baozhen would have used it from around 1900 to the 1950s. Dr. Xie always talked about how he's not Jianghu, it was a big deal for him to not be viewed that way.


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[Bob]

One last recommendation for readings - just got this in today and will be spending the next 2 weeks tearing this apart - it really looks quite good:

http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Medicine- ... +1850-1960

The Making of Modern Chinese Medicine, 1850-1960
(Contemporary Chinese Studies) Hardcover – April 9, 2014
by Bridie drews (Author)

Medical care in nineteenth-century China was spectacularly pluralistic: herbalists, shamans, bone-setters, midwives, priests, and a few medical missionaries from the West all competed for patients. This book examines the received dichotomies between "Western" and "Chinese" medicine, showing how they have been greatly exaggerated. As missionaries went to lengths to make their medicine more acceptable to Chinese patients, modernisers of Chinese medicine worked to become more "scientific" by eradicating superstition and creating modern institutions. This book challenges the supposed superiority of Western medicine in China while showing how "traditional" Chinese medicine was deliberately created in the image of a modern scientific practice.

About the Author
Bridie Andrews is an associate professor of history at Bentley University, USA, and teaches the history of medicine at the New England School of Acupuncture.