windwalker wrote:These people will normally watch a bit and then either issue a challenge or just leave. In this case, the head person decided to issue a challenge. A challenge is not formal like in the movies. The challenger will simply give a high praise to a move and ask the instructor to try it on him.
This is highly unfair as the instructor has shown his move and the move is for showing the application of a move in the form. He is in this case, expected to demonstrate that move on the uncooperative challenger. He cannot use a different move, however. It would be considered cheating. So again it is very difficult for the instructor to respond but he cannot refuse.
http://practicalmethod.com/2015/02/about-challenges/
I've never heard of this attitude from any of my teachers, Chinese or otherwise. If you want to step up, it's always been "do whatever you want and take the consequences". Or, as my taiji teacher said, "Take the guy into a corner and beat the shit out of him." Taking him into the corner means away from other eyes so he can save some face. Beating the shit out of him may or may not be taken to actually hurt the guy, but means you have to really do your stuff so there are no questions and the guy has no chance to take a cheap shot.
but means you have to really do your stuff so there are no questions and the guy has no chance to take a cheap shot
nicklinjm wrote:To be honest, as the OP, I am not that interested in the psychology behind these challenges as I am extremely familiar with it, classic passive-aggressive BS where they scope you out for a while before deciding to challenge you, mask it as a friendly 'push hands' game, and then try and go all out to hurt you.
Very common in China I'm afraid, and is the reason why I do not push hands with strangers.
windwalker wrote:China's a pretty big place
Andy_S wrote:...
Also interesting in that - if you read the accounts of the challenges without watching the clip - they come across as pretty epic. If you see the clips, they are simply competitive PH matches. Which has to make you wonder about the legendary challenges of yore...
Andy_S wrote:
In his first clip, he accepts the challenge of a much bigger bruiser who was apparently the local "Taiji bully" - he had challenged every nearby park teacher and seminar teacher and beaten them up, which basically ruined the local Taiji scene. When he challenged the much smaller Chen, he got taught a lesson.
In Chen's second clip, against a big chap in red, he throws the guy four or five times, and does not go down once himself, but (as can be seen from the clip) the big guy keeps telling him that he is "wrong" and is not doing "real Taiji." Apparently, Mr Arrogant walked away believing he had won!
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nicklinjm wrote:To be honest, as the OP, I am not that interested in the psychology behind these challenges as I am extremely familiar with it, classic passive-aggressive BS where they scope you out for a while before deciding to challenge you, mask it as a friendly 'push hands' game, and then try and go all out to hurt you.
Very common in China I'm afraid, and is the reason why I do not push hands with strangers.
Andy_S wrote:SNIP
This type of passive-aggressive challenges are pretty common in Taiwan too
SNIP
I see the "aggressive" I don't see the "passive."
C.J.W. wrote:Andy_S wrote:SNIP
This type of passive-aggressive challenges are pretty common in Taiwan too
SNIP
I see the "aggressive" I don't see the "passive."
The actual challenges are aggressive for sure; the "passive" part I was referring to is how those challengers would often act nice and friendly at first to sort of coax you into crossing hands with them, when in fact all they are interested in is to knock your arse on the ground and stroke their egos -- the same kind of stuff nicklinjm and chenyaolong have also mentioned.
chenyaolong wrote:C.J.W. wrote:Andy_S wrote:SNIP
This type of passive-aggressive challenges are pretty common in Taiwan too
SNIP
I see the "aggressive" I don't see the "passive."
The actual challenges are aggressive for sure; the "passive" part I was referring to is how those challengers would often act nice and friendly at first to sort of coax you into crossing hands with them, when in fact all they are interested in is to knock your arse on the ground and stroke their egos -- the same kind of stuff nicklinjm and chenyaolong have also mentioned.
Although rather than knocking your arse to the ground, it's more they make you play their game, then they can easily beat you within their own rule set. I think a fair way would be to go one round playing their game, then another round your own game. But they would never agree to do something out their own comfort zone.
Students who witnessed it told me about how a big, buffed-out, experienced martial artist pulled up to challenge him. Spontaneous encounters are Zhao’s specialty. He is always ready. There is no perceptible moment when he appears to shift his consciousness or change his stature.
This encounter ended with him looking up at Zhao from the ground, having to be convinced of the potential danger and utter futility of coming back up for another attack. None of this is hyperbole. His speed and control is unnerving.
But they would never agree to do something out their own comfort zone
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