johnwang wrote:May be we should define what "trap" is. When you use your right hand to grab on your opponent's right wrist, if your opponent tries to punch you with his left fist, you can use your right hand to pull his right arm to your right (his left) to interrupt his left hand punch or even his kick.
Since in CMA, "手不空回 - you should never pull your punching hand back empty" is a very important principle, This is a major difference between the CMA and boxing. With boxing gloves on, it's pretty hard for any boxer to pull.
IMO, when you punch and your opponent blocks, instead of just pull your punching hand back, you should pull your opponent's blocking arm back with you. This way, it will be harder for him to move back. You can then create a perfect head on collision with A + B > A.
Taste of Death wrote:Don't pull him to you. Pull yourself to him
Pull yourself to the mountain. Don't pull the mountain to you.
johnwang wrote:Taste of Death wrote:Don't pull him to you. Pull yourself to him
Pull yourself to the mountain. Don't pull the mountain to you.
Agree! The counter force of your pulling can give you the "initial" forward momentum. It's as simple as "borrow force".
MaartenSFS wrote:johnwang wrote:Taste of Death wrote:Don't pull him to you. Pull yourself to him
Pull yourself to the mountain. Don't pull the mountain to you.
Agree! The counter force of your pulling can give you the "initial" forward momentum. It's as simple as "borrow force".
Yes, that is what my Shifu would do in the above example.
johnwang wrote:You can then create a perfect head on collision
Bhassler wrote:No, I'm saying sport fighting is only one small slice of a very big pie.
Taste of Death wrote:When you pull yourself to him it is you who collides into him instead of him colliding into you.
johnwang wrote:Taste of Death wrote:When you pull yourself to him it is you who collides into him instead of him colliding into you.
It depends on which part of your body collide on which part of your opponent's body. If you can let your fist to collide onto your opponent's face, whether you use your fist to meet his face, or he uses his face to meet your fist, the result is all the same.
Newton's 3 law:
When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body.
Ba-men wrote:Bhassler wrote:No, I'm saying sport fighting is only one small slice of a very big pie.
Not to troll.... but if you can't get it done with rules and a referee by your side. "WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU CAN GET IT DONE anywhere else?"
Bhassler wrote:Ba-men wrote:Bhassler wrote:No, I'm saying sport fighting is only one small slice of a very big pie.
Not to troll.... but if you can't get it done with rules and a referee by your side. "WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU CAN GET IT DONE anywhere else?"
I don't know anything about JKD or Wing Chun, so maybe we're talking about different things entirely. I think of trapping as a momentary inhibition of an opponent's limb-- pretty simple and in application it's not clearly defined from blocking, attacking, moving, etc. The distinction is useful for practice and learning, but I don't think anyone who's experienced would try to use it as a technique by itself any more than they would jab once and expect a fight to be over because they touched the other guy's nose.
That said, a criminal attacker does not want to fight you, he wants to take you out. It's common for that sort of attack to be an all out blitz with no warning and no thought given to defense beyond the fact that you won't be fighting back once you're bleeding and unconscious on the ground. That's very different from an opponent who knows you are also trained and who is squaring up from 15 feet away and will attempt to carefully dictate range and everything else so that they can score cumulative damage to you with minimal risk to themselves. I'm sure there are lots of other examples, and it may or may not be relevant to trapping specifically, I just think the assumption that what works in the ring has a direct correlation to what works in various "street" scenarios (or vice versa) is faulty reasoning.
Ba-men wrote:Bhassler wrote:No, I'm saying sport fighting is only one small slice of a very big pie.
Not to troll.... but if you can't get it done with rules and a referee by your side. "WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU CAN GET IT DONE anywhere else?"
I have never witnessed in person or viewed any film of WC or JKD trapping ever done in any serious competitive venue. I've seen very simple unmodified trapping work but NO art could lay a claim to that and... as stated... what I've witnessed is few and far in-between. Nuff said! The proof is in any 5 min search on Youtube in the field of any competitive sport fighting venue (MMA Sanda, Sanshou, Muai Thai or Kick Boxing, Boxing...... or a trip to the local boxing gym. Once reality sets in... i.e. that it doesn't work against someone who has just a little experience in any competitive sport boxing (or kick boxing/muai thai) or against someone just a little adept at competitive grappling/wrestling ..... People then start grasping...... believing that somehow there is a secret formula for making this junk work. they convince themselves they just haven't found it yet. Or (thinking they are practical....) mind fuck themselves into believing they just haven't practiced it hard enough!
(BUT in all reality, no amount of practice will make this junk work against a skilled opponent.... these are too specific of skill sets it's/they are too easily countered with RUDIMENTARY SKILLS!
It's funny when two prominent/famous WC Masters squared off in the last decade(I forget their names) and it went straight to the floor. probably still on Youtube for all to see.
People who believe that mastering a very specific skill set like sticky hands is the path to having real prowess. After years and years of frustration and making up excuses about themselves, their art and their teachers..... after refusing to address reality..... end up scrapping everything they know and cherry picking. i.e. looking for the best. (which doesn't exist.) How many Ex WC practitioners have I run into coaching... I can't count that high...
[i](hopefully your not playing the cherry picking game already by bouncing from one style to another)
If people would just look at their art objectively, throwing out the BS (as all arts have!!!!!!!!!!) and pursuing the arts natural truth(s) i.e what really works against real opposition. They would in the end have something of real value. WC, JKD has a lot to offer.... but trapping mastery IMO isn't one of them. Or shouldn't be! It should only be a small part of the total picture. I'm not into WC but from what I see.... it looks to have just as many "slips" and 'shield's as traps.... Why are not those pursued with the same vigor by your average WC practitioner?
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