Ah Louis wrote:Bodywork wrote:Finny wrote:Ah Louis - note Dan wrote kenjutsu, not kendo. Kendo is a rather uniform art, being governed by one (maybe two, can't remember) mega-organisation.
As in CMA, JMA ain't JMA. By that I mean, most here would happily dismiss the opinion/performance of someone highly ranked in say, Shaolin-do.. and listen intently to the opinion/advice of someone who has spent a decade traveling and studying shaolin lohan.
How would a newbie be able to distinguish or understand the difference in attitudes taken without the experience or background to know the reasons for it.. they can't.
There are people who are highly ranked in arts that the informed laughingly deride - who should be ignored or scoffed at.
Similarly there are unranked people who have spent decades learning legit skills. Only experience and research can provide the ability to make an accurate determination of which is which.
Just something to consider..
+100
And sadly so.
It shouldn't be this way, but I suspect it always has been. Such as Musashi whiping the floor with so many "Masters" and he had no rank.
The founder of sooo many JMA koryu held no rank.
Takeda Sokaku held no rank.
I would love to quote what various Shihans have said about the state of aiki in Daito ryu and Aikido after meeting me, but I won't.
People with limited minds, limit themselves to rank. Then... they get taken apart and its really all they have left. The smart ones change, but there are no end of dumb asses who cling to it. They have to. It's all they ever had.
The hardest thing to face in budo is to account for *yourself* against capable men who don't give a shit about your rank.
Um Dan, my friend. Takeda Sokaku did have rank. He was a samurai, who refused to be anything thing else during the start of the Meijin restoration, a warrior out of time. Takeda was school trained and given credentials in the arts he studied. Kenjutsu, Daito ryu and Sumo he didn't, he was trained by his father in that. Who was ranked and more than likely was qualified to teach.
Musashi's kenjutsu style was of the Yoshioka Clan part of the Kyohachiryu. One of the eight major kenjutsu styles in Kyoto. The swordsmen of the Yoshioka Clan had been instructors for the powerful Ashikaga Family for four generations.
This is a very famous fight where Musashi killed Yoshioka Seijuro. He was a master of the Yoshioka School and head of the Yoshioka family. The fight was outside of Rendaiji Temple in Northern Kyoto on March 8, 1604. Musashi's killed Yoshioka.
Then there was Yoshioka Denshichiro the second head of the family Yoshioka, who also was trained and schooled.
Then there was the 12 year old or so, Yoshioka Matashichiro duel where Musashi charged and beheaded the kid. So I guess the kid doesn't count. He never lived long enough to qualify.
And this is the same for all the other 57 duels Mushashi had. All ranked, qualified and well trained instructors of students. Like Musashi.
People always fall into that myth of "so and so" [great martial artists] didn't have rank or qualifications. But, the truth is they did. They had koryu and not Jigoro Kano system credentials.
John
Don't call me friend. I both cherish and value that distinction and it is earned.
You need a history lesson, as it is you who are into "myths"
*Samurai is not a rank
*Takeda self-admittedly had none, nor ever produced any. Your history of Takeda is seriously flawed to outright fabrication.
*Musashi self-admittedly had none nor ever produced any
As for those high ranked people he supposedly killed?
*Well, on the one hand that sort of makes my point doesn't it? On the other, you are wrong about that as well.
*As for your other assertions of myth surrounding arts invented by no rank people. You need to check that as well. You are provably wrong.
There are ryu that claim origins from Gods and Tengu. Why? Because in a culture that stresses group think, it was the only way to legitimize originality and invention. I have a library full of PHD research into the real budo situation from Sengoku Jidai till now. Through painstaking research it disproves most of the nonsense -to include the idea of the Katana as nothing more than a rarely used side arm- in the vaunted land of the sword as well as most of the koryu ever having anything to do with training active bushi. Many were anachronisms in there own time. Again there is a significant body of work supporting this. Since that is the case, the entirety of your argument goes out the window at its inception.
I remain, as unmoved by your talking points as I suspect I would be by your actual presence.
And none of which addresses the real point here. Advanced budo being, skill, vetted by rank. Skill is skill. rank in art holds no promise of anything useful.
To automatically assign skill to rank is the epitome of stupidity. Particularly when it continues to taken apart on a regular basis around the world.
Anyway, I just woke up to pee and saw your reply, off to bed.