The deputy mayor of Nice said that both habits and burkinis were banned on local beaches in an interview yesterday on Radio 4
The deputy mayor of Nice has said that nuns wearing habits are no more welcome on his beaches than women wearing burkinis.
Speaking to presenter Edward Stourton on the World at One on BBC Radio 4 yesterday, the Deputy Mayor, Rudy Salles defended the burkini ban and said: “What is the burkini? There is bikini and there is burka and the burka is forbidden. When you go to the beach you wear a bathing suit. You don’t go to the beach as you want. If I want to go on the beach naked it’s forbidden-I cannot.
“So if you want to go to the beach in a burkini it’s forbidden because it is a provocation. Religion and the state are completely separated. Religion is the affair of each one but each one at home, each one at church, not each one in the street.”
When Edward Stourton asked him: “What about a Catholic nun. Would she be allowed to appear on the beach wearing her habit?”
The deputy mayor replied: “No. The same.”
Yesterday, the council of state, France’s highest administrative court, examined an appeal by the French Human Rights League to scrap the burkini bans.
The row has escalated since pictures emerged this week of a woman wearing a burkini on a Nice beach being approached and surrounded by the police.
Nice’s deputy mayor said the removal of burkinis was a “necessity” after the terrorist attack last month.
KEND wrote:Burkini ban is ILLEGAL, French court sensationally rules as debate over the controversial Muslim swimsuit sparks ...
The Sun - 2 days ago. THE controversial burkini ban on the French Riviera has been ruled ... in Marseille – the swimsuit was outlawed over fears of extreme Islam.
I can understand where the French are coming from but I think they went overboard. Personally I don't particularly like people wearing special clothing to distinguish themselves for religious or cultural reasons, whether they are Muslims, Jews,Asian etc but living in a secular society I have to go along with it freedom of expression, as long as it doesn't contain a hate content, for example the Klan,its OK with me . The French feel that citizens should be 'french' and follow certain guidelines. In the USA and UK a multicultural approach is favored, this works well except when a group forms an enclave that takes advantage of the host country but does not conform to what is considered cultural norms, demanding their own laws, continuation of destructive customs ['honor killings, genital mutilation etc] in which case the host country would be justified in punishing them according to the laws of the land, or sending them back to their original country. I believe in live and let live but not bending over backwards to please immigrants who are inflexible and have no intention of honoring an implied social contract
mixjourneyman wrote:
How can muslim people integrate into European society if they are always being treated as second class citizens and potential murderers?
Finny wrote:mixjourneyman wrote:
How can muslim people integrate into European society if they are always being treated as second class citizens and potential murderers?
How can muslim people integrate into European society if the very "religious" (I use quotation marks because, AFAIK, the hijab/burka is a kurdish tribal custom imported into islam by the wahabbi saudis, and actually has nothing to do with islam) ideas they adhere to by definition resist the concept?
The entire premise of the ban is that, in France people don't wear burkas. If you move to France, they don't want you wearing burkas. So either don't move there, or do so and (actually) integrate.. by not wearing fundamentalist islamic clothing.
I'm not sure I agree with it as a policy, but also consider that everything about human interactions/relationships naturally involves some degree of reciprocity - as you've noted yourself, if you treat people poorly, they'll treat you poorly in return.
So how free are people to go to the beach in G-Strings (or habits?!?) in muslim countries? Is there outrage over that in the west, or do we figure 'hey it's their country, respect their culture!'. I'd say that's the overwhelming tone of rhetoric in media. Yet there is none of the same afforded the French.
And Steve, FWIW, women absolutely have been perpetrators of islamic terrorism in France.
Veils and burqas are becoming more common in Muslim countries with the resurgence of Islamic fundamentalism. In the West, they are gradually becoming a chic statement of political protest or a symbol of religious distinction.
My mother is European but my father is Algerian (African/Arab). Algeria, is where I would spend my summer.
In muslim countries, there are usually Women-Only swimming pools; thus meaning that muslim women can wear whatever they want.
However, going to the beach is completely different because most women in muslim countries wear the full covering from head to toe (the face veil in some cases).This may sound strange but they would go in the water exactly how they came to the beach.
And Steve, FWIW, women absolutely have been perpetrators of islamic terrorism in France.
motherfuck these self-righteous, ethnocentric assholes wrote:
windwalker wrote:
Where'er not in Kanses any more toto
Steve James wrote:And Steve, FWIW, women absolutely have been perpetrators of islamic terrorism in France.
On the beaches of southern France? Were they wearing Islamic dress?
And, the burkhini isn't a burkha at all. It's a bathing suit, and I don't think they'd be allowed on Afghan beaches.
Steve James wrote:Afa the argument that, for ex., since Christians aren't allowed to wear crosses in Saudi Arabia, etc., or wear bikinis, why should Muslims be able to wear their traditional clothing in France? Well, at base, that just seems like spite, not an actual reason. Christians wear bikinis in Turkey, Egypt and Morocco, and so do Muslim women.
Steve James wrote:In the end, this is a law about a piece of clothing and controlling what women wear. If they decide to wear something else that can be identified in any way, that piece of clothing will be considered illegal. Sure, they have a right to make a clothing law. The fears in France are understandable. When I lived there, the law was passed about wearing the hijab --that was in the 90s. It didn't lead to less of anything either.
The Real Reasons Why the Swiss Voted to Ban Minarets
The surprising vote reveals rather a growing unease in Switzerland, which traditionally has been one of the most open and most tolerant countries of the continent: Many Swiss are worried about the rise of political Islam and religious rules in Europe that are threatening hard-won rights such as equal rights for women and men, the secular rule of law above religion or the right of each individual to decide for him — or herself.
A majority of Swiss voters obviously feels that there are problems with Muslim integration into civil society at the moment.
No, not on the beaches of southern France. Yes, they were wearing islamic dress.
it certainly does reflect common concern around muslim people failing to integrate into societies they migrate to.
Personally, I feel sorry for these women. As Jimmy has highlighted, western countries used to hold similar views around women. However, we've progressed to the point were women are treated with equality, and not forced to cover themselves.
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