Yeung wrote:Daoyin Tu dated back to 168 BC:
http://yang-sheng.com/wp-content/upload ... -chart.png
The term Daoyin means directing and stretching (leading and pulling) and that can be traced back to Zhuangzi.
Steve James wrote:Well, first off, whatever the exercise, unless it was a scholar who "invented" it, there's probably no way to attribute it to a particular person, except in theory. It's like folklore, or finding out who made the first bow or found a way to make fire. So, although the various standing practices may vary, their common ancestors are mythological. It's like attributing the origin of tcc to Chang San Feng. From the folkloric pov (i.e., oral transmission) in Chinese culture, there had to be someone who decided to do standing exercises in order to accomplish something (physical, mental, and/or spiritual). The connection of intent to the actual exercise is key, and it's what probably differentiates one system's practice from another. If the Shaolin intent behind standing was/is the same as that of Chen stylists today, it's more than likely that they share a common ancestor. (No, not talking about Bodhidharma either).
klonk wrote:Yeung wrote:In Wang Xiangzhai’s own words, he is a relative of Guo Yuanshen and this was how he can learn from him. And he developed the Hunyuan Zhuang from the various Zhuang that he learned:
https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... of-yiquan/
Thank you for the link! I'd previously read this in an English translation done by a good chap whose native tongue is neither English nor Chinese and not related to either. I'm having an easier time of it, this time.
Yeung wrote:Connecting its development to Yi Jin Jing is a good suggestion but evidences suggested that it was developed in 1624 using the name of Bodhidharma.
robert wrote:Traditionally standing meditation goes back to the Buddha. See the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta.
"2. The Postures of the Body
And further, monks, a monk knows, when he is going, “I am going”; he knows, when he is
standing, “I am standing”; he knows, when he is sitting, “I am sitting”; he knows, when he
is lying down, “I am lying down”; or just as his body is disposed so he knows it."
going = walking.
In Buddhism all these postures - walking, standing, sitting, and laying down can be used for meditation.
Historically texts in the Buddhist canon have been found that are 1500 years old so this tradition is pretty old. And I'm pretty sure that there is historical evidence that Buddhism is practiced in China by the start of the common era, if not earlier.
http://www.vipassanadhura.com/howto.htm
jjy5016 wrote:My understanding as far as yiquan is concerned, is that hun yuan is more of a theory/method than an actual posture. Hun yuan in this context relates to the Chinese mythological theory of how the universe came about through an explosion, the aftermath of which resulted in matter spiraling out in all directions and becoming stars, planets etc. thereby creating the galaxies. This hun yuan theory is transmuted into the basic standing postures, shi li and walking exercises for stretching and strengthening the tendons and manifested in the fa li exercises.
That picture of Wang with his arms held out in the low embracing the tree posture with his head back and big old grin on his face was a joke. In that picture he was saying that it didn't matter what posture one stood in once he was at a certain level. For a novice standing like that would be called "standing like a fool" because one wouldn't have a clue.
If one is in the correct frame of mind any posture can be considered hun yuan or wuji for that matter.
yeniseri wrote:From my understanding (as limited as it is) Hun Yun Zhuang is a modernist interpretation of zhuagfa brought into modern parlance from an obscure past shrouded in secrecy.
As I recall from what I thought I understood from some of my teachers of the past
1. Zhuangfa's pre1700s practice was present in the xinyi/xingyi matrix of learning i.e. santishi which was synthesized from previous learning methodology
2. Shaolin had/has a mabu training stance (excessive in conditioning per damage of patella complex) while saying the adaption for yangsheng purposes allowed for adapted height and heath considerations
3. Zhi Guan methods speak of a quietness /meditation posture(s) encompassing lying down, "sitting in oblivion" posture and standing
Some of this is documented in some of the works by Livia Kohn so check out some of her works for reference. Very academic and sighted throughout her bobliographic.
In my short lessons with Chang Dungsheng, he was not into zhuangfa (at least public acknowledgement of it and he was a hsingyi/xingyi practitioner taijiquan and primary art shuaijiao), If I recall correctly he did state (through translation) that he was not a fan. Prof Hou Chi Kwang rarely mentioned it and not part of training. Lu Hunping xingyi's did not mention any relationship with zhuangfa hence my use of it (zhaugnfa) being a "modernist" bent with obscure staking added to present teaching methodology. Still positive..
Only restating my view. Since I have taught at a local acupuncture school, I try to bring up present people like Livia Kohn who actually gives a historical bent to a reality often obscured by ignorance, innuendo and downright false points of view. It also helps that students can go back to these sources and see for themselves the background of CMA in a real world matrix
Livia Kohn Introduction
http://www.bu.edu/religion/people/faculty/bios/kohn/
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