Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Ah, the Hagakure, dictated by Yamamoto Tsumetomo, a man who never faced combat in his life. He also broke with tradition and didn't commit junshi (ritual suicide following one's lord in death) because his lord supposedly held disdain for the practice. He then, well before dictating his treatise on loyalty and embracing death, had to move into exile after a prolonged disagreement with his new lord.
Strangely, the Hagakure was then used in the Meiji Restoration as well as the attempted Shōwa Restoration as an excuse to embrace ideologies and carry out activities that embodied the exact opposite of loyalty.
Yeah, I agree studying the strange origins and utilization of the Hagakure is interesting, but it's largely misrepresented both in Japan and in the West.
Anyway, that has nothing to do with the post from Musashi's work, which I can't really comment on as I'm not sure how much of what is written on Musashi is based on reliable documentation.
fuga wrote:I am reading the Obstacle is the Way. Good little book.
grzegorz wrote:Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Ah, the Hagakure, dictated by Yamamoto Tsumetomo, a man who never faced combat in his life. He also broke with tradition and didn't commit junshi (ritual suicide following one's lord in death) because his lord supposedly held disdain for the practice. He then, well before dictating his treatise on loyalty and embracing death, had to move into exile after a prolonged disagreement with his new lord.
Strangely, the Hagakure was then used in the Meiji Restoration as well as the attempted Shōwa Restoration as an excuse to embrace ideologies and carry out activities that embodied the exact opposite of loyalty.
Yeah, I agree studying the strange origins and utilization of the Hagakure is interesting, but it's largely misrepresented both in Japan and in the West.
Anyway, that has nothing to do with the post from Musashi's work, which I can't really comment on as I'm not sure how much of what is written on Musashi is based on reliable documentation.
The fact that he never faced combat gives me more respect for him. I think the American fascination with war and violence is why this country is such a mess. I also think suicide is bull so thanks, I have even more respect for the writer.
Hagakure is no bible or guide to me any more than the works of Carlos Castaneda which may or not fiction as much as these works offer an interesting perspective in times where almost everything is about self-gratification. I don't see the man as someone to be worshipped as much as someone who wrote down what he was being taught and told at a certain period of Japanese history.
I am no samurai and never wanted to be although some may call me a social justice warrior.
grzegorz wrote:No offense but I really couldn't give a damn. I live in 2017 and I appreciate that someone wrote down what he was being taught. It could have been a transvestite geisha girl who hated sushi and my opinion of the work would still be exactly the same.
vagabond wrote:I'm always a little wary of stoicism, and people who want to talk about stoicism. It always seems to be relatively well to do white dudes who consider themselves 'creative' but whose work commands real dollars and is suitably macho, i.e. programmers, high end carpenters, etc. I remember a friend of mine, dude I really like to be clear, telling me about how I could consider my work (line cook) to be an excercise in personal betterment, I think he had some kind of sushi chef or Michelin starred artiste in mind. Regardless, his words made it perfectly clear he'd never changed fryer oil, let alone cleaned out a grease trap.
I wonder how stoicism would look if slavery back in the day had been chattel slavery, rather than the Greek variety which allowed you to purchase your freedom, and slaves of your own.
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