Trip wrote:MaartenSFS wrote:
Please add me (Maarten-SFS) on WeChat and I can show several more clips. ...
They show 100% traditional techniques used against a resisting opponent (and my improvement as a fighter over time). (especially the last two clips which show me completely shake off the last remnants of my Sanda...
Those last clips will also show what TCMA combos look like.
I admittedly started with one-shots, but so does everyone. I've since improved a lot.
Hey Maarten,
I would love to see your fighting growth. But, I don't do WeChat.
Can you upload to Dropbox or Google Drive or similar formats like that?
Once loaded to Dropbox or whatever all you'd have to do is provide a link.
If you can't I understand but am really interested.
cloudz wrote:
You talk about a le tai tradition. Where is the evidence and documentation of this then ?
I'm not discounting the idea that some city or big town put guys on a platform to entertain and fight now and again.. I just don't think it was serious competition as there's a fair chance much of it was worked.
More like a circus affair, like the old time wrestlers or boxers did. And they may have invited locals up to test their kung fu for example.
Other than the 2 early tournaments held in China in the 20th century all we have is some anecdotal accounts like the one you put forward.
No substance is ever cited, no serious research - nothing!
Hop Gar (xia jia in Mandarin,家) means "knight/hero clan." It is the same xia in mandarin as in wuxia, which is a term used to describe books and movies that exemplify martial heroes. "For generations, the Lama monks were imperial palace guards," explains Chin. "There was much hatred for imperial loyalists. Therefore, Master Wong changed the name from Lama to Hop Gar to distance the art from the royal family." Many Lion's Roar enthusiasts add that Hop Gar is Wong's interpretation of the art fused with other tactics gleaned from his extensive combat experience, as well as his legendary association with the other Ten Tigers.
One of Wong's most popular tales is his return to Guangdong. In front of Hai Tung Monastery, Wong set up an elevated stage known as a leitai to accept challenges from any and all comers. Over the course of eighteen days, he defeated over one hundred and fifty challengers. "Either the challenger was maimed or killed," noted Chin. "He never let one challenger leave his school without injury. "not a nice guy"
He was a master of using the technique of cruelty " bad stuff never liked it ."
There are four principles for Hop Gar: cruelty, evasion, penetration and interception.
When asked about cruelty, Chin stoically quotes the Lama White Crane kung fu classics:
"When hunting a tiger, destroy it. Otherwise, a wounded tiger will return to harm you.
When weeding a garden, pull up the roots. Otherwise, the weeds will grow back.
Whether the lion is hunting an elephant or a rabbit, the lion always uses full force."
" Many Lion's Roar enthusiasts add that Hop Gar is Wong's interpretation of the art fused with other tactics gleaned from his extensive combat experience, as well as his legendary association with the other Ten Tigers.
He taught as the youngest faculty member in the Nanjing Central Kuoshu Institute (中央國術館) and exchanged knowledge with other martial arts experts. He created his own variation of t'ai chi and xingyi, Chang t'ai chi, based on Yang-style t'ai chi ch'uan, xingyi and his shuai jiao knowledge.[3] Chang travelled across all China and learned with around 70 masters, always introducing himself as a simple student in order to learn everything possible.[2]
There are several famous anecdotes about Chang's short temper. In one occasion, a man came to the Taipei National Police University and asked to train with him; instead of answering, Tung Sheng attacked the visitor and threw him down, forcing him to confess that he had actually come to challenge him after the training, something Chang had already figured out.
[4] Similarly, Robert W. Smith once traveled to Taiwan to interview Tung Sheng and train with him, but when he asked the master to show him some of his skills, Chang just kicked Smith in the groin.
always introducing himself as a simple student in order to learn everything possible
Steve James wrote:Competition always existed in public and in private and, of course, "for real" in the military.
MaartenSFS wrote:Trip wrote:MaartenSFS wrote:
Please add me (Maarten-SFS) on WeChat and I can show several more clips. ...
They show 100% traditional techniques used against a resisting opponent (and my improvement as a fighter over time). (especially the last two clips which show me completely shake off the last remnants of my Sanda...
Those last clips will also show what TCMA combos look like.
I admittedly started with one-shots, but so does everyone. I've since improved a lot.
Hey Maarten,
I would love to see your fighting growth. But, I don't do WeChat.
Can you upload to Dropbox or Google Drive or similar formats like that?
Once loaded to Dropbox or whatever all you'd have to do is provide a link.
If you can't I understand but am really interested.
Unfortunately there is no other way. When I get back to the West in a year or so (still waiting on my wife's visa) I'll begin uploading to Youtube. I began sparring with the boxers again today so I hope that I'll have more videos soon, though I've regressed a bit since I didn't train at all for over two months and I've still got to take it easy. It may take a month or two before I have anything worth showing.
windwalker wrote:He taught as the youngest faculty member in the Nanjing Central Kuoshu Institute (中央國術館) and exchanged knowledge with other martial arts experts. He created his own variation of t'ai chi and xingyi, Chang t'ai chi, based on Yang-style t'ai chi ch'uan, xingyi and his shuai jiao knowledge.[3] Chang travelled across all China and learned with around 70 masters, always introducing himself as a simple student in order to learn everything possible.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang_Tung_Sheng
old style MMAThere are several famous anecdotes about Chang's short temper. In one occasion, a man came to the Taipei National Police University and asked to train with him; instead of answering, Tung Sheng attacked the visitor and threw him down, forcing him to confess that he had actually come to challenge him after the training, something Chang had already figured out.
[4] Similarly, Robert W. Smith once traveled to Taiwan to interview Tung Sheng and train with him, but when he asked the master to show him some of his skills, Chang just kicked Smith in the groin.
Kick to the groin, had to hurt dispite what some have posted to the contrary.
In reading the many stories about some of the old masters,
they all went out and did things, not talk about them.always introducing himself as a simple student in order to learn everything possible
Hello, I'm just a simple student
MaartenSFS wrote:This is a quiet area of a park, surrounded by shrubbery. There is an equipment locker and a hanging bag, speed balls, etc. The coach is in his 70s and was an instructor for the army in Harbin. I'm not sure about his competition record, but he has a lot of fighting experience. Fought Russians as well. He has students that have gone on to compete, including a ten year old little girl (she won whatever competition she was in). The people I'm sparring arrive at the park almost every day of the year and run, do these suspension exercises on pull-up bars and then train boxing for an hour or more. They are dedicated amateurs (and look ripped). The fact that I have access to these people to train with and that they let me fight them with my style is a miracle in China, let alone in this little city in Chinese Siberia (and free of charge).
I have no interest in competition and whether or not I can make my stuff work against a professional athlete does not in any way validate or invalidate the effectiveness of my art. People I'm likely to face on the street are at the very best going to be as good as an amateur (if they aren't straight up murderers).
cloudz wrote:Steve James wrote:Competition always existed in public and in private and, of course, "for real" in the military.
If it existed in public, I'd be interested in more details, are there public records for example. Is there anyone anywhere who has done the research and made it available that you know of? When you mention the military, are you seriously bringing the kind of fighting they did into a discussion about bare hand duels. Why ?
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