Appledog wrote:If it's not your idea then don't hold on to tightly to it. A lot of people will say something like this, but it is based on a misunderstanding as I have shown. You should probably double check that FZW quote, are you sure it is saying what you think it is saying?
YY: Does this mean there are two definitions of peng? One is the upward direction of the four side energy, while the other is a broader concept, the expanding energy concept?
FZQ: It is OK to differentiate; to give two definitions. One is the upward direction of the four-sided energy (peng/lu/ji/an), the other is yi(4) qi(4) gu(3)dang(4). [Gudang has a very subtle meaning. Here it is used to describe the outward expansion/movement/vibration of yi and qi.]
Every movement is guided by yi and qi movement. If you don't have yi qi gudang, you collapse. Even if your limbs do not move, you need to have yi and qi. When your intention arrives, your qi will arrive. Movement will follow naturally and your force will arrive.
robert wrote:Appledog wrote:If it's not your idea then don't hold on to tightly to it. A lot of people will say something like this, but it is based on a misunderstanding as I have shown. You should probably double check that FZW quote, are you sure it is saying what you think it is saying?
I have an open mind, but the quote seems pretty clear to me.YY: Does this mean there are two definitions of peng? One is the upward direction of the four side energy, while the other is a broader concept, the expanding energy concept?
FZQ: It is OK to differentiate; to give two definitions. One is the upward direction of the four-sided energy (peng/lu/ji/an), the other is yi(4) qi(4) gu(3)dang(4). [Gudang has a very subtle meaning. Here it is used to describe the outward expansion/movement/vibration of yi and qi.]
Every movement is guided by yi and qi movement. If you don't have yi qi gudang, you collapse. Even if your limbs do not move, you need to have yi and qi. When your intention arrives, your qi will arrive. Movement will follow naturally and your force will arrive.
I'm not trying to sell this idea and if you interpret it differently that's fine, but what he is saying seems clear.
Appledog wrote:Yeah it's clear, as I said, both ways can be interpreted as being correct. Thats what he says too. He says it is OK to give two definitions; one is my definition (as part of peng-lu-ji-an) and the other is the fill-up outward expansion.
Appledog wrote:Now once again the point of all this and why I want to be so careful is because of the title of the thread.
If you have peng ala peng lu ji an, you will not have excessive movement in taiji practice.
If you have peng ala expansive/framework/song-qing jing energy, this will allow for excessive movement in taiji practice.
So it is anyone's guess how this trend got started.
Bodywork wrote:Maintaining circular movement creates yin and yang within all aspects of the movement. Chen Fake supposedly told Hong Jun Shang that he believed that people misunderstood peng as the one jin. Rather Chansi jin was the one jin. As within silk reeling...all jins are present.
For absorbing and generating forces I prefer rotation as it maintain an independence and detachment in free movement across styles... So being free to change and maintaining detachment in widely changing environments are integral to how I think about internals. For me I have found that, my foundational skill set works best based on rotation.
Dan
Partridge_Run wrote:Charles,
You are doing a fantastic job with your posts. Your style of communication sets a clear standard.
Thank you for that.
Hidden hand punch is another kind of problematic move.
Appledog wrote:Well, it's an opinion, but if in practice it works out by defining connection as staying in the circle, and having to go to a larger circle to feel the roundness, then aren't we now talking about something different than the expansive energy you get from standing? What about arts that don't have this kind of circular motion, but do have the expansive energy. Would they also be a kind of Tai Chi? If we took one of those movements. Say Beng quan (the punch) from Xingyi. A fine and famous move. But in tai chi, would such a move be considered extraneous?
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