Taiwan martial arts demo

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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby wiesiek on Fri May 12, 2017 12:06 am

..."Training for application of for being in a position to apply a technique is a separate matter. Arm bars (or qinna) work, check out Billy Robinson videos. But, you can't expect a resisting opponent to offer you a compromised position...."

from my experience , -even the most "exotic" techniques will work nicely, IF you catch the opportunity on the fly,
really easy to do , sometimes... - BUT one condition - it was trained zillion times before with the partner, not necessary in the long form :)
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby cloudz on Fri May 12, 2017 12:48 am

wayne hansen wrote:
cloudz wrote:Great demo (which is also how you would train them) of TCMA techniques here. No theatrics necessary.





The shortcoming in this clip is the passive student
He never attacks or defends
The teacher circles and then takes his time to set up the Chinna and then applies it with force
Any person with no training can do theses throws with little instruction once the hold is setup


My suggestion was to have both co-operative and no co-operative work, so I' don't disagree on that score.
Why not throw some clips up Wayne, you have a class don't you. Getting proficient at a few techniques with co-operation doesn't take an age.
But there's no denying that you can see this gentlemans quality, some viewers may like to appreciate that - in this case.
I think there's always a place for refining your technique in this way, amongst others of course.
Last edited by cloudz on Fri May 12, 2017 1:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby windwalker on Fri May 12, 2017 1:28 am

Fatal Rose wrote:Now this isn't perfect but at least it's something.

And what does this have to do with fake chi blasting nonsense?


Because the same things could be and have been said of CMA, that its fake and never worked
there's a whole thread on it here it case you haven't noticed.

as to your example
let me help you with some training of styles I've worked with in the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA5-Q6wALTg

One can see clear distinct stylistic movement and usage according to
the style.

note: it looks like chen style, do not practice Chen style others might comment on this,
covers many of the points that people bring out regarding cooperative or not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_kdGe8Ljc
Last edited by windwalker on Fri May 12, 2017 2:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby wayne hansen on Fri May 12, 2017 1:31 am

I only have a couple of students these days and they are not into being filmed
There is some stuff of me to be released after I check out
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby Trick on Fri May 12, 2017 2:15 am

Fatal Rose wrote:Why is chi blasting even open for discussion? It's proven fake garbage!
https://youtu.be/dOOh2J1b3lQ

Didn't the TJQ master of the TJQ vs MMA fight say that most of the punches fired at him did not connected with his head ?
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby cloudz on Fri May 12, 2017 2:51 am

wayne hansen wrote:I only have a couple of students these days and they are not into being filmed
There is some stuff of me to be released after I check out


No worries, I've posted clips as examples rather than anything I think definitive. So if you know any examples of what you like to see, that's all good too.
Shame you don't have more students to train up, I guess that comes with the territory.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby RobP3 on Fri May 12, 2017 3:25 am

Tom wrote:
RobP3 wrote:[snip]Or at least in a demo I try and get the crowd involved in doing some exercises or something.You can't show "real fight" stuff, people either don't see what's going on or think you are a bully lol. People for the most part want to see some flashy entertainment


Oh yeah, there's nothing more flashy and exciting than watching slow press-ups and squats with heavy breathing. :o

:)


Precisely, better for people to do them, than watch. It's training, not entertainment :) If you want a cool fight scene, rent a movie :)
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby Fatal Rose on Fri May 12, 2017 8:17 am

windwalker wrote:
Fatal Rose wrote:Now this isn't perfect but at least it's something.

And what does this have to do with fake chi blasting nonsense?


Because the same things could be and have been said of CMA, that its fake and never worked
there's a whole thread on it here it case you haven't noticed.

as to your example
let me help you with some training of styles I've worked with in the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA5-Q6wALTg

One can see clear distinct stylistic movement and usage according to
the style.

note: it looks like chen style, do not practice Chen style others might comment on this,
covers many of the points that people bring out regarding cooperative or not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_kdGe8Ljc



What I mean is...

What does technique application have to do with fake Qi blasting no touch KO nonsense?
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby Franklin on Fri May 12, 2017 9:02 pm

Tom wrote:
Franklin wrote:but who does push hands with an 80 year old and sends him back 12 feet and into the dirt?


I do, apparently . . . :)

Sorry I missed your question earlier, Franklin. WW was there, and his follow-up post provided the context. As I mentioned before, I wanted to try to gauge Zhang's internal connection and coordination. I wasn't particularly interested in the lin kong jin, but I like grappling, because I can sense certain things about the person I'm working with. So Zhang let me try different entries to set-ups for throws, slowly and very gradually increasing the pressure to reach the point of off-balancing (kuzushi in judo, not sure if shuai jiao has a similar term). He was very good, making quick and smooth and very subtle adaptations to changing vectors. We had a lot of fun and were both laughing, and then moved into a few minutes of light-contact free-form tuishou. One of Zhang's qualities that impressed me the most was his ability to make his arms feel like they had his whole bodyweight in them, something I've felt in some good grapplers and in the CMA world from Chen Xiang (a bajiquan adept as well as a taijiquan disciple of the late Feng Zhiqiang). In tuishou Zhang could deflect and slip past my arms, or simply do his heavy-arm thing to off-balance me. I reached a point where I stopped mentally trying to set up a sequence of moves and counters, and just got into feeling the flow. So I think I was more surprised than Zhang when I found my hands on his chest, and took a small step in with a very light push. He moved back and seemed to trip, stumbling back two or three steps further before sitting down into the dirt, rolling onto his lower back then getting up with a grin. I rushed over to help dust him off and he indicated that he was willing to do more. But I already felt I'd taken up more than my share of Zhang's time so I declined. I was very impressed with Zhang's level of gongfu and resilience (I fervently wished for some of that kind of resilience a few days later after some rough-and-tumble play with some Russians outside of a bellydancing bar in Chaoyang).

I guess if I hadn't been as surprised as I was making contact with Zhang's torso I might have been able to reach out to keep him from stumbling back. But the point of the anecdote was to underscore the resilience imparted by Zhang's level of gongfu to the vicissitudes of physical being, whether at the hands of a clumsy laowai or slipping in the shower.




thanks for the context...
seems it was a fun time


without the context..
my mind was going back to when some of my teachers where in their 80's
every so often there would be someone who would ask the teacher something and then try to use excessive force or really muscle it....
(of course the teacher could transform it... )
but someone would usually step in if we saw this happening... (the person would usually change their tune when this happened)



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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby windwalker on Fri May 12, 2017 9:59 pm

"seems like it was a fun time"

It was, Tom, gave Zhang, shifu a lot of respect with his honest effort. Zhang, shifu was very happy in engaging with someone of skill, sincere in his effort to understand something.

He would often say " I am not a taiji theroist, I am a taiji practitioner" he was very hands on.

Over the years he's had all kinds of martial artist come to test his work. Many of them stayed​ making up the bulk of his students .
Last edited by windwalker on Fri May 12, 2017 10:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby GrahamB on Sat May 13, 2017 12:49 pm

I guess, like "Gracie", Zhang went home with dirt on his back. Somebody should make a website about it for posterity.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby windwalker on Sat May 13, 2017 3:29 pm

Tom wrote:Among the 8-10 students watching there was a police officer my size with some nice Chen taiji qinna skill and a 6-foot 7-inch PLA soldier. Zhang was well cared for.
Image

He was more of a detective than policemen. He had mentioned that "jet li" was his class mate and friend
in the wushu school they both went to. His specialty among other things was xingyi. He was quite skilled, more of fellow teacher then student.
Had a habit of lying on one of the bars used for stretching when taking a break...very cool guy,,,good skill.

The PLA sergeant, a very close taiji classmate of mine....
Our first meeting,,,he asked me " what are you an American doing here" through another student who could speak some English.
Despite his size he was very kind and gentle soul. After understanding that I used to be an American GI, he mentioned that we could have both faced each other in some battle field as enemies. This was brought home by a questioned he had once asked
"what would you do if we had met in war"

2 bothers looking at each other, both did not answer.

Zhang, Shifu, attracted many who had practiced other CMA arts for a long time, they stayed after finding something that they could feel but
not really explain nor do..very interesting at times, as they got into some very heated arguments just as many do here, about what was happening, the how and what was being done....Each person would argue from the perspective of what ever art they'ed come from.

Zhang, Shifu, would watch for awhile, then come over and do something to both of them allowing them to feel what they had been arguing about..this tended to quiet things down, people smiled or laughed watching something they felt , happen to someone else. I should mention that often it left a person feeling sick...not something that one volunteered for.
Last edited by windwalker on Sun May 14, 2017 8:01 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby dspyrido on Sun May 14, 2017 2:54 pm

Tom wrote:I wasn't particularly interested in the lin kong jin, but I like grappling, because I can sense certain things about the person I'm working with.


This and many other threads are all about LKJ with WW being the most emphatic supporter of them. Ww has signed off more than once with - come to China you & need to feel it.

So you did.

You get half way around the world, meet with the master and decide the that it is not particularly interesting?
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby windwalker on Sun May 14, 2017 3:36 pm

dspyrido wrote:
Tom wrote:I wasn't particularly interested in the lin kong jin, but I like grappling, because I can sense certain things about the person I'm working with.


This and many other threads are all about LKJ with WW being the most emphatic supporter of them. Ww has signed off more than once with - come to China you & need to feel it.

So you did.

You get half way around the world, meet with the master and decide the that it is not particularly interesting?


For the record, I may have said you need to feel it .
I cannot recall ever saying go to China or finding any particular teacher to do so, "exception": if a teacher advertises and
invites others to try their work I may suggest those looking for it to contact them.

I have said whether touched or not the process by which it works is the same.
Tom, did feel this.

Others from RSF have stopped by over the yrs,, I've always asked them to respect zhang, shifus privacy
they have. Most of them no longer post here.

The LKJ is part of this work but not directly, the process of how it works is something I've spent awhile studying and doing my own inquires into for a while.
My own history is from other CMA arts and taiji styles that I've practiced with for some time,,I do have both perspectives from which to draw from and can understand many of the questions asked here but not really what seems to be the closed mindedness that most have concerning this that they dont have on other things that this is based on...

zhang, shifu, has had many long term CMA artiest that stayed long term after feeling something quite different.

Some leave after having stayed for a while 5 or more yrs understanding that they can't get it..or feeling he wasn't teaching them enough
really not the case...He is just "old school" and did not explain things much. It was all doing, not much talking...

There is two parts to the process, one is gaining the skill, the other is learning how to use it...Its not the same
some teachers/ students, having some skill feel they know how to use it, try publicly..In most cases a bad mistake doesn't end well. :P


The many clips brought here are all all things I've either felt or can do at my level, just try to offer
a different perspective. Yes I do agree some of the demos look cheesy, but one should remember in most cases its done in China,
for a Chinese audience. If one teacher shows something the others tend to show the same things.

They are all "demos" its a small aspect of a much lager process at work..many teachers use this aspect to demo a concept.

FWIW at 94 he no longer teaches actively, and doesn't make it to the park so often these days.
Its really only very recently have I mentioned him or his work directly..he is known in Beijing , by many there.
They respecting his privacy never mentioned him publicly.
https://journeytoemptiness.com/2017/01/ ... yongliang/
Last edited by windwalker on Mon May 15, 2017 2:44 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby Taste of Death on Sun May 14, 2017 6:15 pm

I trained with a 62 year old African American police officer today with decades of martial arts experience including kenpo, small circle jujitsu, tkd and other arts. He said the two heaviest blows he's taken were a kick from a kenpo master and a punch from Sam Tam. The big difference between the two was Sam did not touch him. My taiji/xingyi sifu Henry Look had been on the receiving end of Professor and Madame Yu's lkj and I have kung fu brothers who have witnessed and been affected by Sam Tam's no touch punch. I have never felt or seen such a thing but I don't think the people I train with are lying.
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