wayne hansen wrote:I understand exactly what you mean but as there are no static postures in tai chi so it is not possible.
Even in the yang the blow is delivered around 50/50
I-mon wrote:This is great, it's in Japanese but you don't really need to understand the words. I studied at a school of students of Wang Shu Jin when I lived in Tokyo back around 2000. They weren't teaching the internal mechanics at all, but I've always liked the Chen Pan Ling form, the use of the xingyi like frame and then as you can see in this video every taiji move is used as an entry for the xingyi fists and bagua throws and sweeps.
Plus Wang Shu Jin was a classic fat man, they don't come much better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnhEwTAQr7Q&t=130s
Steve Rowe wrote:I-mon wrote:This is great, it's in Japanese but you don't really need to understand the words. I studied at a school of students of Wang Shu Jin when I lived in Tokyo back around 2000. They weren't teaching the internal mechanics at all, but I've always liked the Chen Pan Ling form, the use of the xingyi like frame and then as you can see in this video every taiji move is used as an entry for the xingyi fists and bagua throws and sweeps.
Plus Wang Shu Jin was a classic fat man, they don't come much better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnhEwTAQr7Q&t=130s
Interesting how the Japanese mind interprets it. That lovely flow is still retained in the form and yet gets lost in application as they revert to 'karate mind'.
Trick wrote:Steve Rowe wrote:Interesting how the Japanese mind interprets it. That lovely flow is still retained in the form and yet gets lost in application as they revert to 'karate mind'.
'Japanese mind' ?,'Karate mind' ?, I do have heard of these expressions(long time ago)in Sweden from senior Karatekas turned ICMArtists, but could never really understand what they mean ? Prior hearing these kind of statements I had seen and met in Okinawa Karatekas that showed flow and evasiveness with perfectly combined soft and hard application practice(throws and strikes). And take Aikido, a Japanese martial art that is very much about flow.
Bao wrote:Trick wrote:Steve Rowe wrote:Interesting how the Japanese mind interprets it. That lovely flow is still retained in the form and yet gets lost in application as they revert to 'karate mind'.
'Japanese mind' ?,'Karate mind' ?, I do have heard of these expressions(long time ago)in Sweden from senior Karatekas turned ICMArtists, but could never really understand what they mean ? Prior hearing these kind of statements I had seen and met in Okinawa Karatekas that showed flow and evasiveness with perfectly combined soft and hard application practice(throws and strikes). And take Aikido, a Japanese martial art that is very much about flow.
Agree with Steve. But Steve has Karate in his repertoire, so if anyone has the right to make that judgment, it's him.
I know very few who can handle both the soft and hard styles at the same time. The best ones I know about seem to have mostly an "IMA" mind. Even their Karate, although they do the movements that looks hard, they still keep their body very, very relaxed all of the time. One practical problem if you keep stiffing up all of the time, like in the clip above, is that you restrict your body to a certain distance. It's impossible to change quickly to another distance, to gain distance or enter, if your body is locked. You can see this problem in IMA practitioners as well. Sometimes they can look relaxed, yet they have a problem changing distance, because they are locked by their own structure, or by a "frame". Relaxing in solo practice and keeping relaxed when you are up against someone, especially one who use strength, are IME very different things. That is why you need a training method that teach your body to keep relaxed.
Brinkman wrote:As I see it, the many manifestations or various presentations of Chen Pan-ling Taiji.. have to do with its origin as a synthetic style, or inherent “three in one” concept ”. Beyond that, the variants passed down, including the Wang Shu-Jin lineage and CPL’s son…often takes on the flavor of the practitioner’s particular background.. .. beyond that, most of the people I’ve met who practice CPL often have an earlier background in another Taiji variant or (internal) martial art . So there are some who practice it with a large frame and emphasis on projecting the spine vertically, while others use a slight diagonal lean.. small frame, large frame , upper middle and lower basin…some who fajin or others who carry the jin and don’t issue.. There is also a contingency who tend to emphasize (more or less) the reeling silk aspect or rather the rise, fall, drill, overturn throughout the form. .. In Taiwan besides Wang shujin there were others like Hung Yixiang, Su Dongchen and Luo Deshou who have practiced it.
Nonetheless, I don’t think there is any particular inherent genius to the form outside of the conceptual format of combining the characteristics of Yang, Wu and Chen into a synthesized variant. Yet in most cases, the various CPL teachers in Taiwan are not specifically aware of how to differentiate the three. Nor will you find a wide interest in its martial value beyond the norm. That being said, you have to find people who understand the concepts and can demonstrate the differences and have a fondness for the martial quality.
Its frame was touted to possess fixed step, half step and moving step versions, so it is an easy fit for Xingyi and Bagua practitioners. .
At the end of the day, its form by form sequence is identical to Yang ..yet provides a format to break down the applications and body structure according to a wider conceptual framework.
Besides that, as a sub style it is probably not (as) bogged down with its loyalty to lineage or allegiance to style idiosyncrasies. The four or five teachers of CPL I’ve had all emphasized different aspects of the art.
If you break down the form to its bare essentials, from beginning to end, it follows an evolution of Grasp Bird’s Tail from simple to complex.
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