Yeung wrote:... Chen Xin had problems in getting rid of stiffness.
From his writing, I do not think he knew how not to use brute force as most practitioners promoted by the Chinese Government.
The Chen family fail to sort out themselves after all these years is a big question of do they really know Taijiquan.
Yeung wrote:
I think it is difficult to make up a system of Taijiquan without going to the basics, and Chen Xin had problems in getting rid of stiffness. From his writing, I do not think he knew how not to use brute force as most practitioners promoted by the Chinese Government. The Chen family fail to sort out themselves after all these years is a big question of do they really know Taijiquan. I think making up some forms is just not good enough to be called Taijiquan.
The famed Wu Tunan (also known as the Northern Star of Taijiquan) was in charge. A discussion came up, with regards to categorization of styles,leading to a great deal of controversy as to where Chen Style Taijiquan belonged. Some suggested that it belonged to the External Division. At the time, the slow and gentle nature of Yang style Taijiquan was considered the standard of Taijiquan. What Chen Fake practiced certainly did not fall fall into this category.Others countered that it is, after all, called Chen Style Taijiquan, so it should be included as part of the Internal Division. Master Wu Tunan did not concur. He felt that Chen Style should be treated as an external style, similar to Shaolin. Someone turned to Chen Fake, Master Chen, you are the standard bearer of the Chen Family, is it external or internal?
Chen Fake answered, If the revered master Wu thinks it is external, then it is external! We did not have this distinction at home. (Later on, in a remarkable reversal of logic, this statement was actually quoted by some as proof that Chen Style Taijiquan is not the original source of Taijiquan, since family member Chen Fake did not even acknowledge it as an internal style.)
He begged his teacher for an explanation. Master Chen’s answer had nothing to do with either Chen or Wu styles: My ancestors invented it. My great grandfather practiced it [translator’s note: This refers to Chen Changxing, who taught Yang Luchan, the creator of Yang Style]. My father practiced it. I practice it now. We do not call it Taiji. We do not have a name for it. You can call it anything you want, I will still practice it the same way I was taught. I don’t care what they put in the name!
Chen Fake was certainly not a philosopher. However one might appreciate the profound depth of his perspective. He saw the name as nothing more than a shallow symbol of the object. What Chen Fake learned and taught was Chen Style Taijiquan. The change of the name by others or the views of others will never affect what it is.
Chen Fake was certainly not a philosopher. However one might appreciate the profound depth of his perspective. He saw the name as nothing more than a shallow symbol of the object.
At the time, the slow and gentle nature of Yang style Taijiquan was considered the standard of Taijiquan.
bruce.schaub August 31, 2013 at 12:33 pm
Generally speaking I agree with what you are saying, that Chen Taijiquan very likely has some of it’s roots in longfist, Shaolin, etc., but what people often fail to realize is that there is a very fundamental difference in how they function.
Chen Taiji has had one of the most characteristically Taoist methodologies applied to it that makes it internal. Reversal of Yin and Yang. Every Chinese martial art has Yin Yang theory applied to it in various ways, but whereas typical longfist works with “normal” human tendencies and capacities and seeks to enhance them, Taijiquan, quite to the contrary, gradually reverses the inner dynamics in such a way that on the outside it may appear the same as a “normal” “longfist” type of martial art, as soon as you touch someone like Master Chen who has put themself through that training, you know immediately, this is anything but simply a longfist variant.
The problem is so few people actually teach the true process required to reverse and transform yourself internally, that these types of ideas get perpetuated. Another problem is that people often make these types of statements without identifying themselves or there backgrounds, and use terminology like “by researching” , ” further studies indicate “, ” it was even mentioned ” and ” it was stated ” …. who researched? who’s studies? who mentioned ? who stated ? etc.
It sounds very official and scholarly but if those things are not sourced and identified, then basically people can say whatever they want and bend the truth to whatever direction they want, and unfortunately often people will read something like that and believe it or be influenced by it. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but it’s really more important to keep an open mind and keep looking for the deeper truth. Fortunately, Master Chen is very open with his sharing of knowledge and is meticulous about maintaining very strict integrity when it comes to the information he shares.
Appledog wrote:
Willie: Nice video, why was it originally intended for me? Do you want me to comment?
wayne hansen wrote:Don't know how true it is but at a meeting of all the tai chi families ,I think it was 1924
The Chen asked if they could attend
Wu tu nan was said to say yes but you can only sit and observe because your art is Shaolin red fist
Like I said I have no idea how true the story is but it seems to fit here
Appledog wrote:willie wrote:Appledog wrote:Yeah, I was going to post it on the other thread where you asked about qi.
You can comment if you like.
The forms and application were taught directly to my Sifu from various sources.
Master Zhang Lu Ping (senior student of chen Zhaokui's senior students).
GM Chen Zhenglei.
GM Wang Hai Jun
Yeah ok well you asked. It does seem to be strongly a Chen Village Laojia style.
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