KEND wrote:I'm sure this question has been asked before, I applied it to Hsing yi but found no satisfactory answers. In TCC forms there are a certain number of techniques which are repeated, others which are not. Is this determined by frequency of use or ones favored by the creator. If you were given the 13 postures would you do it differently
KEND wrote:In TCC forms there are a certain number of techniques which are repeated, others which are not. Is this determined by frequency of use or ones favored by the creator.
If you were given the 13 postures would you do it differently
Bao wrote:KEND wrote:In TCC forms there are a certain number of techniques which are repeated, others which are not. Is this determined by frequency of use or ones favored by the creator.
The traditional long forms in TCC as well as older shaolin, Changquan and other arts follow the same structures found in Chinese aesthetics, how to structure poems and paintings for balance, harmony, how to make them beautiful. If more temporary or recent forms don't not follow these structures, mostly it has to do with illiteracy and a lack of knowledge of history, culture and arts.
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Trick wrote:It might be so that the "old" Taiji forms where 'composed' in a way that followed the way of other 'arts', but it seems farfetched. That idea got a feel of pure scholars only practice forms has come up with. If TJQ is about combat then the "art" would be found in combat not in forms?
KEND wrote:I'm sure this question has been asked before, I applied it to Hsing yi but found no satisfactory answers. In TCC forms there are a certain number of techniques which are repeated, others which are not. Is this determined by frequency of use or ones favored by the creator. If you were given the 13 postures would you do it differently
If you were given the 13 postures would you do it differently
When working with a partner, the four techniques of ward-off, rollback, press, and push are the first of the thirteen dynamics to work on. Stand in one place and do the four techniques rolling in circles, then do them advancing and retreating, doing them at a middle height. Then do them higher and lower as well, practicing at all three heights.
The four primary techniques, aligned with the four cardinal compass points, are ward-off, rollback, press, and push. In the beginning, there will be a lack of understanding of the principle that squareness can lead to roundness and that they may alternate. Thus ability will emerge in the four secondary techniques of pluck, rend, elbow, and bump. Due to your outer limbs and inner spirit not maintaining nimbleness of squareness/roundness in the primary techniques, the mistakes of lightness, heaviness, floating, or sinking will start to manifest, and with them the secondary techniques.
Graculus wrote:I don't know why this should be, but many Shaolin related forms that I am familiar with, as well as Chen Taiji share a similar choreography for the first few moves - step forward (north); step right (east); step left (west) for a whole bunch of moves - which is to say, the form starts near the back right edge of the 'performance area. This may have something to do with the way stage performances were given, religious rituals were performed, military drills conducted, or something else entirely, but there is probably some definite link to something that is probably lost to us now.
Along these lines, there is Scott Meredith's theory that it is based on religious rituals/folk performances, and there is probably something in that, too, although I haven't had time to read his book yet.
Graculus
http://ichijoji.blogspot.jp/
The positions of the eight gates are based on the principle of the passive and active aspects inverting each other, cycling round and round, following each other in their process.
All of the four primary techniques [corresponding to the cardinal directions] and four secondary techniques [corresponding to the corner directions] must be understood. Warding off, rolling back, pressing, and pushing are the four primary techniques. Plucking, rending, elbowing, and bumping are the four secondary techniques. The combining of these cardinals and corners thus positions the trigrams.
Embrace the eight trigrams as you step through the five elements. Techniques plus steps equals eight plus five, amounting to thirteen, naturally expressed as the Thirteen Dynamics, known as the Eight Gates & Five Steps.–
Bao wrote:In some classical tai chi books it is said that there were no set forms in earlier days, only postures and the students had to make their own forms and put their own drills together. I like this way, to not start off with a set to follow, but having different pieces that you can put together into simpler and more complex structures. If I ever had time to start my own class again, I would probably follow the older way of teaching TTC. If I created my own forms, I would try to follow the old rules of creating forms, but probably make a few short forms focusing on different combat aspects. These shorter forms could be then be practiced separately or put together in any order the student wish to make a longer form.
Trick wrote:.....Now I must ask, you say you only practice TJQ and that you thrown all other practice 'out of the window', so why would you want to create new Taiji forms and not just stick to the TJQ that you have learned?
And what are the "old rules" of creating a form?
And you say your students may put together the short forms you teach in any order they which to create a "long" form.. is that as long as they following the principles of music and poetry?
Trick wrote:
I do not know much about TCMA history but I get the feeling the at least the earlier exercises where created by military men based on combat experience.
There is a lot that one can draw out of these stories. But the critical aspect in both cases is that Sun believed that the practices that we now refer to as the internal “martial arts” began with Doaist health and longevity practices that were first studied at holy mountains.
This knowledge was either lost or missing from the “external” styles. Interestingly enough, some aspect of this crucial gnosis was also shared by Daoism, Buddhism and even Confucianism (see for example Sun’s occasional references to the Doctrine of the Mean).
This framework led Sun to claim that rather than being a minor or secondary consideration, the self-cultivation and health aspect of the martial arts were central to the entire enterprise. They were the literal heart of the matter.
Once you mastered these skills other martial applications could be sought and added, but in Sun’s view pursuing the combat skills first was like putting the cart before the horse.
The traditional Chinese martial arts may have started out as a method for fighting, but in the post-WWII period they quickly became a means of identity formation. It is not that the need for self-defense has ever really gone away, but other less tangible concerns have risen to the fore.
It may surprise readers that Sun is not always regarded as a great boxer in China, particularly among competing Taiji, Xingyi or Bagua lineages. His modification and simplifications of the forms are not always appreciated. The emphasis on health and basic fitness, rather than actual fighting and self-defense applications, in his lineage is often questioned.
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