Wanderingdragon wrote:Understanding Yiquan realizes, contrary to what some would say, that it would s actually a step beyond basic internal principal. It is a higher level " you move the move first " general tai chi/internal principal. "No matter you touch me, I shake your core ", yiquan principal, it means no matter where you touch me, and it will be me hitting you. This is what trianing yiquan method seeks to teach and the skill proponents with true understanding seek to embody. In the OP the player only has the pose, there is know connection, there is know understanding of the footwork, there is know use of the body and in one piece, and as has been noted there is no action only reaction.
everything wrote:This fascination with "it's old" and somehow better is too often taken to the absurd. We see this in sports all the time. Who is the GOAT? Is it Jordan (yes)? Is it LeBron James? Is it Pele? Maradona? Messi?
Zhao Daoxin wrote:. . . Even more challenging was fighting with other Chinese at that time. No foreigners signed up for the leitei tournaments in Hangzhou or Shanghai. The people from traditional styles, even if they were monks or great masters who were famous, either got hurt or were too afraid to fight. The winners, although they were supposed to represent their traditional systems, used completely different methods of training for these fights.
. . . And there is a lack of harmony between form and intention. Everyone talks about form and intention being important but actually, they tend to go towards one extreme or the other. There is also a lack of harmony between fighting exercises and methods (tactics).
People like to compare xingyiquan to western boxing but they're also afraid of doing so. They want this Chinese "thing" to be pure. So, when there is even a small similarity they prefer to get rid of it. I think, as far as training methods and competition goes, that xingyiquan should learn from boxing.
. . . Yi-qi-li and jing-qi-shen (intention, qi, and strength, and the concept of sexual essence turning to qi and then turning to spirit- this is an old Daoist idea)...those concepts, as related to internal training, are difficult to express in normal language. We could say that it is about using self-suggestion to induce feelings of comfort and strength. Nowadays there are new ideas that are at least as effective as these old ones, and they are more efficient for practical use.
Wanderingdragon wrote:Understanding Yiquan realizes, contrary to what some would say, that it would s actually a step beyond basic internal principal. It is a higher level " you move the move first " general tai chi/internal principal. "No matter you touch me, I shake your core ", yiquan principal, it means no matter where you touch me, and it will be me hitting you. . . .
Ian Sinclair wrote:One of the common misconceptions about Tai Chi fighting strategy is that it is indirect. That it is yielding, passive, defensive strategy. The strategy of Tai Chi is not passive. It is the aggressive search for balance and victory. . . .
Wanderingdragon wrote:"there is no connection, there is no understanding of the footwork, there is no use of the body in one piece. "
Wanderingdragon wrote:I wrote that a few entries above, it is essentially what the Jordan clip touches on. IMO, there is no yiquan being played, the player has a very low understanding of, as you pointed out, basic fighting principals and almost zero understanding of yiquan method.
Wanderingdragon wrote:If you understand yiquan you know that it is only A strike. Defense and offense are non existant
everything wrote:[
When Wang says he went around the land and "tested" himself against the top people, what does that mean? If stories and legends are to be believed, whenever he did these "tests" he was the winner of these bouts/matches/sparring.
marvin8 wrote:@ :00,Ian Sinclair wrote:One of the common misconceptions about Tai Chi fighting strategy is that it is indirect. That it is yielding, passive, defensive strategy. The strategy of Tai Chi is not passive. It is the aggressive search for balance and victory. . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3y8tLH0M_M
Bao wrote:marvin8 wrote:@ :00,Ian Sinclair wrote:One of the common misconceptions about Tai Chi fighting strategy is that it is indirect. That it is yielding, passive, defensive strategy. The strategy of Tai Chi is not passive. It is the aggressive search for balance and victory. . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3y8tLH0M_M
Yeah, everyone misunderstand Tai Chi fighting, he says, so he shows how to do if someone would come and push with his both hands against your arm, and what to do if someone lean against your body.
.... It would be very useful against the sanda guy in the OP.
marvin8 wrote:Enticing (luring) an opponent to make contact with your arm is one method of searching for control, rather than being passive. The Yiquan player could have been more aggressive by feinting a move (not fully committed), seize the Sanda player out of position, then finish.
Michael Jordan instructs not to shoot the basketball, first. Because, the opponent can block/counter one's shot. Instead, Michael says to jab step (feint), get the opponent out of position and change directions, before committing to finishing/shooting the basketball.
These concepts are consistent with Tai Chi fighting strategy.
windwalker wrote:marvin8 wrote:Enticing (luring) an opponent to make contact with your arm is one method of searching for control, rather than being passive. The Yiquan player could have been more aggressive by feinting a move (not fully committed), seize the Sanda player out of position, then finish.
Michael Jordan instructs not to shoot the basketball, first. Because, the opponent can block/counter one's shot. Instead, Michael says to jab step (feint), get the opponent out of position and change directions, before committing to finishing/shooting the basketball.
These concepts are consistent with Tai Chi fighting strategy.
I believe there are some Yiquan players here it would be interesting reading their thoughts on the clip.
Peter Ralston outlines a good approach based on sound assumptions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjrKxXVBbmA
He also talks about taiji, wing chun, other arts ect and address some of things that cause them to fail.
marvin8 wrote:Even if one is playing defense, one’s goal should be to control the opponent (get them out of position/balance) from the beginning, preferably without the opponent realizing it (deception). This can be done in various ways: distance control, angles, changing directions, feinting, lead hand dominance, hand fighting, low leg kicks, etc. Then finish, as Michael Jordan instructs in the video.
Peter Ralson wrote:On the other hand in Chen Hsin, we rarely do that. Most of the time we lead or get out of the way. Now, take a look at the difference. If I am leading, yes, yes, yes, yes. In the whole process, he is happy, happy, happy, happy. But the other way, unhappy, unhappy, unhappy, unhappy. You got to change. I had to keep dealing with it over and over again without knowing what it is I am going to have to deal with. Here I know what I am dealing with. One of the reasons I know is I am leading him. I am helping him. You see the difference?
Zhang Yun wrote:4. Using jin in pushing hands and fighting
One common mistake for many people is that they try to use fa jin too directly. They just want to use their jin to beat their opponents as hard as possible. But in real Taiji Quan skill, throwing jin should never be used alone.
The complete process consists of five steps:
1. Ting – listen: feel or detect what the opponent want to do,
2. Hua – melt or dissolve: neutralize the attacking force,
3. Yin – lure: give the opponent false impressions, making him feel like he can get you, and leading him to go
where you want him to go,
4. Nia - hold or control: get the opponent under your control (usually means keep him off-balanced), and
5. Fa - release a throwing force: attack.
Here the first four skills are nei jin skills, while the last one, fa, can be either nei jin or wai jin. In order to be true Taiji skill, the first four steps must be present.
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