Steve James wrote:Violence is the measure of violence.
Yeah, but I was thinking about fear, terror, chilling effect, etc.
But, your second question is interesting. Are you saying that the guy who bought shot Scalise belonged to Antifa? Or, is he just an example of politically motivated violence?
I meant just an example of political violence.
Not that it won't happen, but has Antifa run anyone over or shot people in a church.
Asked and answered above.
If they do, however, will it be worse because it's them who did it?
No, of course not. My main point is that all political violence should be pre-empted by discussion and other non-violent means.
Otoh, when someone at a KKK or neo-Nazi demonstration hits or shoots back at Antifa, is that justifiable violence.
I attempted to discuss this with you in detail in the Charlotsville thread. I don't think the 1st amendment is an absolute right for terrorizing people when that is the result. Hurt feelings over tweets or something, that's your problem, but a bunch of armed people marching down your street with genocidal slogans, that's an exception to the rule I would agree to.
I know some will call me a troll, but that's an insignificant price. In general, as soon as I saw "criminal left," I knew the conclusion and didn't have to read. Btw, I didn't read the article about undercover in the alt-right either. I know real ex-nazis, and alt-right is just a name. The actions of Individuals is all that matters to me. It doesn't [oops] matter whether the individual's mask or face is white or black. For me, alt-right or Antifa are generally just the same people who cheer for different football teams.
Turns out I am in complete agreement with you. Also, the thread title was too click-baity, so I changed it.
Now, I have a bunch of complaints about Antifa. The masks need to go.
Yep.
But, I resent more the conflation of Antifa with the "left," meaning not the right, meaning the liberals, democrats and anyone who doesn't support Trump.
The problem is that the legitimate left has failed to disavow Antifa, at least partly because they're not aware of how big a problem it's become for their political opponents, the right, and are then surprised by the conflation, although from one point of view it appears there is a connection between Antifa and the legitimate political left. Destroy the perception of a connection by disavowing Antifa and political violence, and decry leftists in the media who perform mental gymnastics in order to justify punching a Nazi because that's the Antifa excuse for their pre-emptive political violence.
However, though not posting anything against Antifa makes one a supporter, not posting anything anti Nazi or KKK never suggests that one is a Nazi. I haven't seen one anti-Nazi thread on rsf. I've never seen one pro-antifa thread either.
I said it before that I think Nazis and KKK are so discredited as to be a joke. Maybe I should be more aware of the implication of what you've just said when I write about Antifa. I just didn't think it was necessary.
Words are violence and violence is almost always preceded by words.
How are words violence? Is there not a distinction between the two? Inb4 exception to the rule, fighting words, etc.