MaartenSFS wrote:Bao wrote:wayne hansen wrote:Funny how those who don't practice tai chi or even if they do think other arts are superior
Know more about tai chi than those that do
Yup.
It's easy to say that something doesn't work when you are not willing to walk the road.martensfs wrote:Now hippies sing songs of softness and never test their art.
You mix up things. Not testing an art doesn't mean it doesn't work. You need to test it first. A lot. You need to fight a lot using T'ai chi to make T'ai chi work. Replacing T'ai chi with something else instead of trying to make it work doesn't mean that the other thing is better than what you didn't have patience to make work.Last year a foreigner that had been studying Taijiquan for a number of years came to visit my Master for about ten days.
... He had been lead astray - down a path of softness and relaxation that never delivered the fighting results that he wanted.
For how long had that person practiced T'ai chi? What style and for whom? How much had he tried to use it in fighting? How tried he to used it? In real fighting? sparring?
...You need to put some more meat to your arguments...
I can assure that I'm not mixed up. If your Taiji teacher can fight and, after several years of training with him, you can't, then there is something wrong. The person that I refer to studied Wu style and had been learning for five to six years and regularly sparred. Still, he says, he feels that his master didn't teach him many things. It shouldn't take that long. He has been deceived.
The replacing Taiji with other things part is exactly what I said not to do!
Trick wrote:I would think that your friend from Harbin has not been practicing very sincerely. The "strong" relaxedness you will eventually get comes from, how can I describe it? a regular day to day practice of relaxed subconscious dynamic-tension practice for your musclefibers that also put your body structure in a desirable alignment.....this you can get just from the Form practice...Yes from Form practice, it actually build strength, it's kind of an mind and bodybuilding tool....but it takes time a lot of time and devotion for most to get(at least it did for me) it right......Now here are many Fighters on this board that will probably say one can only develop the strength and proper relaxedness from fighting and fighting again...sure throu sparring/fighting one will get to another level......Now it's many many years ago I did any kind of (free)sparring and weight training, but still keep good relaxed strength just trou Forms practice....It's almost unbelievable
martensfs wrote:I can assure that I'm not mixed up. If your Taiji teacher can fight and, after several years of training with him, you can't, then there is something wrong.
The person that I refer to studied Wu style and had been learning for five to six years and regularly sparred. Still, he says, he feels that his master didn't teach him many things. It shouldn't take that long. He has been deceived.
MaartenSFS wrote:wayne hansen wrote:Funny how those who don't practice tai chi or even if they do think other arts are superior
Know more about tai chi than those that do
It's funny how people can't read. Nowhere did I state that.
MaartenSFS wrote:Trick wrote:I would think that your friend from Harbin has not been practicing very sincerely. The "strong" relaxedness you will eventually get comes from, how can I describe it? a regular day to day practice of relaxed subconscious dynamic-tension practice for your musclefibers that also put your body structure in a desirable alignment.....this you can get just from the Form practice...Yes from Form practice, it actually build strength, it's kind of an mind and bodybuilding tool....but it takes time a lot of time and devotion for most to get(at least it did for me) it right......Now here are many Fighters on this board that will probably say one can only develop the strength and proper relaxedness from fighting and fighting again...sure throu sparring/fighting one will get to another level......Now it's many many years ago I did any kind of (free)sparring and weight training, but still keep good relaxed strength just trou Forms practice....It's almost unbelievable
He practised quite sincerely. I'm not against forms practise, but the masters I have met that could fight all trained individual movements, often with weights. Of course, they fought too.
Bao wrote: People just don't get that strength in T'ai chi comes from building strength through relaxation. They don't understand that fajin doesn't come from adding strength to their relaxation, but from relaxing more. They don't believe it because they haven't walked the road to the end where they can start to realize this.
I am surprised that a person who claims to have practice an art of XY have hard to understand. Standing in a Santishi and relaxing through the pain is the perfect way to get an idea about developing the use of deeper core muscles. Pole shaking has the same goal, it's about using the core of the body. T'ai Chi body core use is developed mainly through form practice. But Tai Chi fighting skills are not developed through "feeling strength", it's all developed through learning how to be able to relax very deep regardless of the situation. Only if you understand this, you will know how to always use whole body strength from your deep core muscles.
MaartenSFS wrote:...That type of training is the Yang part of the art that few masters teach, let alone have. It wasn't taught to everyone. It's one of the key ingredients to making an art work.
I'm not going to sacrifice my body in the hopes that some people may believe that CMA has some amazing things to offer that are unique in the martial arts world and worth preserving. In sparring I can either go all out and risk seriously injuring my opponent (and myself if they are just better at fighting than me) or go softly and risk people saying that it's worthless. It can also go horribly wrong in the other direction....
At least with the sword fighting we can fence full-contact and there is minimal risk due to modern protective gear and people will immediately understand. I will literally take on all comers and have. I can't do the same thing with unarmed fighting. It requires too much trust on both ends.
When I leave there will be no one that will receive the [weapons] full-transmission and it will die out.
Trick wrote:Yes Taijiquan practice is not an easy thing(until one gets it), many don't feel any real benefit from it even after years of practice so many quit, those who are younger quit because they want to fight and they want to be able to quickly fight superior so they take up other "quicker" martial arts because one is not young forever, maybe they "fall back" to Taijiquan when they have fought away their desire of being a fighter......Actually that's when I really began to feel the benefits of Taijiquan practice, when I threw away the fighting mentality.
willie wrote:Martin's argument doesn't make any sense at all, But I imagine it will be entertaining none the less.
Trick wrote:I like that kind of practice since it not involve "dead" lifts that isolate a specific muscle, it requires a kind of flow
johnwang wrote:Martin's argument makes perfect sense to me. As I have always said, you can't "soft" your opponent to death.
You will need something else. That's the missing half - the finish moves (or the hardness)
hi John. Martin's argument doesn't make any sense to me for a couple good reason 's. The first is that Martin decided to belittle somebody who did know what they were talking about. which proves that he does not know what he's talking about. The second is Yang is not missing from my style of Tai Chi. It is also not missing from my teacher or his teachers and all the way right to the top. So where does he get this impression that yang is missing in Tai Chi? Obviously it is from training with people who teach for free in the Parks. They never had it to begin with. As you remember I had cautioned people about listening to people and third-party opinions and instruction from people who are too far off of the course of a well-known and respected lineage. This is not to say that people in the Parks don't have any skill. But that doesn't mean that the skills that they have acquired are going to lead anyone to a complete understanding. In a recent post by strange, he had made a remark about people seeming to have acquired their understanding of the art strictly from a commercialized view point. He also mentioned like trying to piece together a whole cookie by duplicating the crumbs. You will never have a complete understanding in that fashion.johnwang wrote:willie wrote:Martin's argument doesn't make any sense at all, But I imagine it will be entertaining none the less.
Martin's argument makes perfect sense to me. As I have always said, you can't "soft" your opponent to death. You will need something else. That's the missing half - the finish moves (or the hardness).
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