kenneth fish wrote:I remember seeing that footage a long time ago (pre-internet days). If I recall correctly, there was no challenge involved - it was about setting up the choreography for a fight scene.
Jeff Bona wrote:BW: The only film I know of that was shot of Bruce Lee was shot by Ahna Capri, on the set of ETD. In it we sparred for about 10 minutes.
JB: Oh really? This hasn’t been released to the public, I take it?
BW: Well she’s got a problem. I had offered her a pretty good chunk of money so that Freddy Weintraub could put it in “Curse of the Dragon” and she turned him down. But she can’t sell because she has to have releases. She can sell it to a private collector but she want 65 grand for it. Its not worth 65 grand. Its about 12 minutes of film and about 5 minutes of Bruce, us sparring….
kenneth fish wrote:On the other hand, reliable witnesses reported that Bruce Lee once picked a fight with Gene Lebell on set, and Lebell basically tied him up like a pretzel (Lebell and Lee were, however, close friends). Still, this is what Lebell had to say a few years ago
Bhassler wrote:marvin8 wrote:On the same set Bruce did prove he could "fight" in front of witnesses.Beerdy - Bruce Lee Central on Sep 14, 2017 wrote:On the set of Enter The Dragon a bunch of guys wanted to challenge Bruce Lee to a fight, this is very common in chinese culture, to challenge the leader or the one considered to be the best. And if you win the challenge, you are now considered to be the best, so you can imagine how many wanted to beat Bruce Lee himself, and you can imagine the legend staus you would recieve if you beat him. But of course, it's easier said than done, as this extra experienced. Throughout Bruce Lee's life he's been challenged like this, and he never lost a fight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th-R3As8XUM
Again, that's not a fight-- the only thing it proves (if true) is that Bruce could win a dick measuring contest. It's been a couple of decades since I read it, but I think it was in Jacky Chan's biography where he recounted the same incident as Bruce proving himself to the stuntmen by kicking a pad and launching them back several feet. Whether Jacky's ghostwriter cleaned it up for American family sensibilities or whether the BBC guy's source embellished the incident, we may never know. Or at least, I may never know, because it doesn't relate to anything one way or the other and I can't be bothered to research it further. Trading kicks may show a skill in the same way that push hands can show a skill, but not too many folks nowadays believe that push hands is enough to make one a competent fighter. . . .
Not saying Bruce wasn't good or couldn't fight or anything else, just pointing out some glaring deficiencies in the so-called "evidence" of Bruce's prowess.
NDoraku on 01 Dec 2015 wrote:
Bob Wall, USPK karate champion and co-star in "Enter the Dragon", recalled one encounter that transpired after a film extra kept taunting Lee. The extra yelled that Lee was "a movie star, not a martial artist," that he "wasn't much of a fighter." Lee answered his taunts by asking him to jump down from the wall he was sitting on. Wall described Lee's opponent as "a gang-banger type of guy from Hong Kong," a "damned good martial artist," and observed that he was fast, strong, and bigger than Bruce.[31]
"This kid was good. He was strong and fast, and he was really trying to punch Bruce's brains in. But Bruce just methodically took him apart.[32] Bruce kept moving so well, this kid couldn't touch him...then all of a sudden, Bruce got him and rammed his ass with the wall and swept him up, proceeding to drop him and plant his knee into his opponent's chest, locked his arm out straight, and nailed him in the face repeatedly." — Bob Wall[33]
John Saxon wrote:I saw a young extra sitting on a wall, loudly address Bruce in Cantonese. I don't know exactly what he said, but I gathered it was something like: 'You're just an actor, for the Movies' Bruce beckoned to him to come down off the wall. The kid foolishly did, and like Humpty-Dumpty quickly received a lightning crack to his face, and fell to his knees.
Dave Freidman wrote:It all went down in Chinese. We were on our way to lunch, and some guy got egged on by his friends to challenge Bruce. Big mistake. Whatever he said pulled a trigger. I had seen Bruce challenged over the years, kind of like the old gunfighter being challenged by some young punk who thinks he’s faster. This time Bruce did one swift kick and the guy’s teeth went flying and the fight was over.
It works both ways with haters trying to disprove "Bruce's prowess," with "glaring" deficient evidence.
kenneth fish wrote:Marvin8: The film from the OP. I recall seeing it as part of a collection of "behind the scenes" and "out-takes" footage.
marvin8 wrote:Here is a what the publisher stated in the comments section:Beerdy - Bruce Lee Central 2 months ago wrote:Yeah yeah, I know he wasn't actually challenging Bruce. But he was arguing with him regarding what kind of distance to use for the scene. He was claiming that Bruce was too far away from him, but as you can see Bruce taught him a LESSON in martial arts. Never question the boss baby. That kick would have sent him to the hospital, or worse.
Bhassler wrote:marvin8 wrote:It works both ways with haters trying to disprove "Bruce's prowess," with "glaring" deficient evidence.
I realize you may be speaking in generalities, but since you quoted my post, I'd like to point out that I never said Bruce couldn't fight, I'm just pointing out that the so-called evidence is inconclusive.
The extensive quotes from people who were on set are more compelling, but the photos you posted of the alleged challenge don't match the stories of a lightning fast kick followed by blood and teeth coming out of the opponent's mouth, so rather than proving the point that Bruce could fight, it just raises more questions.
The question of whether or not a given set of evidence proves something is not the same as the question of whether or not something is true.
Bhassler wrote:Again, that's not a fight-- the only thing it proves (if true) is that Bruce could win a dick measuring contest. It's been a couple of decades since I read it, but I think it was in Jacky Chan's biography where he recounted the same incident as Bruce proving himself to the stuntmen by kicking a pad and launching them back several feet. Whether Jacky's ghostwriter cleaned it up for American family sensibilities or whether the BBC guy's source embellished the incident, we may never know. Or at least, I may never know, because it doesn't relate to anything one way or the other and I can't be bothered to research it further. Trading kicks may show a skill in the same way that push hands can show a skill, but not too many folks nowadays believe that push hands is enough to make one a competent fighter.
Bhassler wrote:If you think any videos posted on this thread constitute a fight, then you and I have very different ideas of what a fight is. The closest thing was a fully padded sparring match.
If you think that any of the arguments presented here "prove" that Bruce Lee could fight, then you and I have very different ideas of what logic and reason are.
marvin8 wrote:Then, I provided evidence: witness video & statements and photos that prove 1) there was a fight and 2) Bruce can fight, since he won.
Strange wrote:re sparring with the hands down
martial artists who know about different mas know that there are about 1001 ways
to chinna/trap/lock/break the various joints in the hand and arm
and that stuff is really not funny... if you understand what i'mma saying
Strange wrote:that hand feint controlled the mind of the opponent like
a invisible puppet string
Strange wrote:re sparring with the hands down
martial artists who know about different mas know that there are about 1001 ways
to chinna/trap/lock/break the various joints in the hand and arm
and that stuff is really not funny... if you understand what i'mma saying
C.J.W. wrote:But in light of the recent series of TCMA vs. MMA/Sanda challenge matches coming out of China, I'm of the opinion that when going up against trained modern fighters who favor rapid violent head strikes, TCMAists should worry more about how to raise the guard and protect the head as opposed to keeping the hands down in fear of being joint-locked. Different priorities against different fighting styles, that's all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58StUY3ZHks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTW5DvyAxAw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CmdTcenk7o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e79Gj2ZGc-Y
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