Option 1: The RSF Brexiters have completely changed their political opinion on this topic.
Option 2: They haven't changed, but don't care or didn't notice this space any longer.
Option 3: They were all arrested for mean tweets.
Option 4: This thread is dominated by remainers who are a) not open to discussion b) are uninformed on both sides of the brexit debate c) get all their information from the BBC. And I really cannot be arsed arguing on this board anymore.
Venting on here about how hard done by you are because a vote didnt go your way ... posting biased pieces you have not personally fact checked or researched ... these are things i cannot be bothered to be involved with.
The last time I did this i posted actual EU documents .. and the only response was 'I cant be bothered to talk about this anymore'.
I voted leave ... i am not a 'brexiter' ... that is a derogatory term the remainers use to label people all the things they believe them to me.
Im not racist, im not a nationalist, im not right wing in any metric. I am a left leaning centrist, I have a Gay brother so am obviously pro Gay rights, I am pro immigration, pro womens rights, pro- environmental protection, pro animal well fair, pro small government, pro social initiative, pro cross country co-operation ... I am also pro Europe (the continent), i have best friends from around Europe (a continent) ... i am a liberal if anything and have personally been affected by this exit process more than most i know. My wifes business has been dramatically effected by the volatility of the pound as has my own.
Must be really confusing for me not to fit the mold ... But I STILL think we should leave.
The main thing that has changed for me now is I now wonder how on gods green earth ANYONE could possible support the EU either in concept or organisation. It is like people seeing what the a dictator is up too and saying "well its better to be with them than against them". The EU flag and the MAGA hat are comparable symbols of this cognitive dissonance to me.
So to outline my position. Forewarning ... I'm not going to argue with anyone on these points.
1) The EU have shown that they are not interested in their member states.
the Irish border is as much their problem as ours. Their decision (today) to reject any and all discussions and to force us into a no deal brexit is very telling. It shows that the backstop was not to be used as they stated. The whole "just trust us we wont use it" argument that our parliament rightly rejected seems to have been bollocks after all. They are putting their own citizens in Ireland at risk ... a country they have already ruined and have had to bail our of trouble. Remainers seem to think 'Why should they re-negotiate' is a logical argument. How about because it will affect EU citizens the most! and yet we are STILL asked to believe they are a moral, humanitarian organisation?!! Next up Italy! Go EU!
2) Our politcal class are complete asshats.
May and the conservatives are unsuitable to lead. Corbyn and his useless band of idiots are dangerous unsuitable to lead ... and we have NO other options. So are stuck with May. This means a hard Brexit is inevitable, not what i wanted or believe we should have aimed towards.
3) The Remainers response to the vote result has pushed the political class into conservatism
The remainers have tared Brexiters with the brush of being idiots, of being racists. This has caused division in the nation worse than it has ever experienced (much as we see in the US with Trump supporters and the left). This has caused the political parties to split their values and judgement to cater for both sides of this deep division in an attempt to win general elections. As such Labour, who had some great ideas before the vote, are now confused, politically posturing idiots. The conservatives have lost what backbone they had and are trying to appease both sides. The Brexit talks are the casualty of this deep division.
4) the Brexiters were naive ... myself included.
I believed that democracy was a concept that the UK populace holds dear. The fact has emerged that democracy is not relevant to 50% of the population. When a vote doesn't go their way they jump to the streets. When an organisation removes their rights they applaud. Looking through history, it amazes me that remainers don't see the problem with unelected governance, but they simply don't. Its a reality I now accept. I certainly was not Naive about the EU as an organisation, i think if anything my views of them have been completely justified.
5) The media is completely disingenuous
I make a point to research all subjects AWAY from my preferred media. I will go to multiple sources for every news story. I go straight to the source and research bills and legislation itself. This isn't something everyone can do. But i can assure you that i have rarely found anything that is reported by the media that marries up with the reality. Posting fun youtube videos that align with your political view, animations narrated by the admittedly wonderful Stephen Fry, doesnt actually make what they say correct. I was actually thinking of taking that video point by point and writing a more balanced assessment of each point ... i simply didn't have the time.
Finally. We are leaving the EU. In the long run this will be the best thing for us. I predict that the EU itself will fail as a union in the next 20 years. Their conduct 'making an example of us' has made the rest of the member states nervous. Not because they dont want to go through this but because they are wondering how this unelected organisation can fuck over 10s of thousands of businesses inside the EU ... to make a point. That is what is happening. The businesses inside the EU are hurting the most because of this process, and the officials in Brussels don't seem to care at all.
I have hope our countries division can be sewn back together.
I saw a Pro EU group in my local city and went over for a chat. We talked for over an hour, they had to call over their 'big gun' who had arranged the group when my points started to go over the head of the person i was talking too. I pulled up my arguments from the EU's own documents to refute his points. In the end, he didn't have an answer, we agreed to disagree, shook hands and i went and bought the whole table a Star Bucks for being so reasonable with me.
That's how this nation is fixed. People with differing opinions respecting each other and showing each other some love.
Being at each others throats is not the answer ... and this thread seems to be largely about trying to be at each others throats were a dissenting voice enter the fray. No opinions will be changed, no views discussed reasonably as is the way here.
I will save my 'I told you so' Post for 2 years time when everything is absolutely fine ... The way things are going that will likely be my next post on this board full stop! lol.
Thanks.