GrahamB wrote:You go far enough left you meet the people going far enough right.
GrahamB wrote:You go far enough left you meet the people going far enough right.
Giles wrote:I'm certainly no expert on political science, so I won't try to make any profound or generally valid statements on this issue. However, it seems to me that there is one aspect where extreme left wing and extreme right wing can morph into each other. --->>> Please note, by "extreme left wing" I'm referring to actual Communist ideologies and political systems, or those that dubbed themselves 'Socialist' but were still essentially Communist. I'm NOT referring to political parties or governments or other bodies with social democratic or liberal socialist leanings, even though some in the US and elsewhere refer to these, erroneously, as "far left".
Anyway: where a state moves into a condition of essential dictatorship (end of generally free and fair elections, jail sentences or worse for dissenting or 'deviant' political opinions etc.), or where an individual adopts views and a state of mind that support such a form of governance, then there can be an easy transfer from "far left" to "far right" and perhaps in the other direction, too.
The official ideology may be diametrically opposed, at least on paper, but basic modes of thinking, feeling and behaving are pretty much the same. Then it's like a computer printer in 'extremist/dictatorship' mode that will print only in one colour and in a particular way, and you can simply swap the ink cartridge and the printer will do exactly the same job in the new colour.
One example close to home (for me): a significant proportion of the people who grew up and were socialized in the essentially Communist dictatorship of the GDR ("East Germany") have shown themselves to be more open and amenable to extreme right-wing and in some cases essentially fascist/Nazi thinking, along with political parties that support/sell this thinking. The relative strength and success of the political party AFD in the areas of the former GDR is due significantly (but not solely) to this factor.
At the anecdotal level, let me quote from the Wikipedia entry on Horst Mahler (who by the way was born in the 'East' but moved to the 'West' in his teens):
"Horst Mahler (born 23 January 1936) is a German former lawyer and political activist.[1] He once was an extreme-left militant and a founding member of the Red Army Faction (RAF, also known as the Baader–Meinhof Group) and later became a Maoist before switching to neo-Nazism. Between 2000 and 2003, he was a member of the far-right National Democratic Party of Germany. Since 2003, he has repeatedly been convicted of Volksverhetzung ("incitement of popular hatred") and Holocaust denial and served much of a twelve-year prison sentence."
In Russia, many aspects and qualities of the repressive Communist dictatorship of the USSR, which at least officially propagated ideological struggle and ultimate global victory of the Communist ideology, are gradually but clearly being revived under Putin. At the practical level (and jumping over the years ca. 1991-2005), Putin is establishing a continuity between "Communism and 'the proletariat' first" and the current "Russia and Russian interests first" with clear elements of ideological nationalism tending towards fascism in practical terms. The KGB morphed fairly seamlessly into the FSB with many of the same personnel, structures and methods. And so on.
So to summarize, the actual ideologies and stated ends of 'far left' and 'far right' may remain clearly distinct or even fully opposed, but once you get into 'extremist', dictatorship-friendly thinking and structures, and are willing to put these into practice, then the tips of the horseshoe maybe can touch.
oragami_itto wrote:I think the simple answer is that authoritarianism is very opportunistic. Left or right wing ideologies are just a vehicle for power hungry psychopaths to get their hands on the pursestrings.
Steve James wrote:I agree with origami that the categories left and right might describe different political philosophies, but both can be equally authoritarian in practice.
However, I also understand that people who hold the extreme views on any subject are likely to be just as extreme if they switch positions. There's no one further "left" than an ex-Nazi. Similarly, "liberals" who become "conservatives" are usually outspoken against "liberals." George Wallace ran for president on a pro-segregationist platform. He was almost assassinated; but, he eventually turned into a civil rights advocate.
Anyway, these things happen, but they're not inevitable. And, it's neither good nor bad. When it comes to covid, though, it's more likely that someone who was against vaccines will be for vaccines if he or she ends up on a deathbed in the ICU. But, everyone's who against them will not necessarily change their minds.
Grandma said people are more likely to become the thing they hate, rather than the thing they love.
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:oragami_itto wrote:I think the simple answer is that authoritarianism is very opportunistic. Left or right wing ideologies are just a vehicle for power hungry psychopaths to get their hands on the pursestrings.
Is that all they are?
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