Appledog wrote:I'll just preface this by saying my teacher told me I could start learning push hands if I wanted to, and showed me single hand push hands, and i've been to a few push hands classes before.
But, I have heard various tales over when a student should learn push hands. According to CZL (iirc), students would start push hands after the first year of forms training. Sun Lutang was even more ambitious, suggesting as little as six months. On the DAOI server someone said that in their school push hands was taught from the beginning.
On the other side of the coin, there seems to be the opinion that push hands shouldn't be started until possibly many years after practice -- as many as 10. That there needs to be some kind of breakthrough into "something" -- I am not sure what -- dantian rotation, qi movement, not sure.
All things that will answer themselves in time, with exposer to others having developed and use them.
Any type of taiji application is "push hands" ie uses the skill same skill set
So I am here to ask the respected citizens of rumsoakedfist, when do you think a student, in general, should start push hands training? I am not looking to push people into it "as soon as possible" neither do I want to delay someone's training. But, when is a reasonable, rational time to begin? Thanks.
Really depends on "the teachers focus" provided that it aligns with ones own. One of the bases for choosing a teacher.
p.s. I am talking about cooperative push hands of the various kinds, at least in the beginning, as described, for example, in the Wang Fengming book, or the Ma Hong video. Not necessarily competitive push hands, which I believe comes later.
Dmitri wrote:Any place that forces you to wait more than a few months is a scam IMO. Ideally, it should be a definitive part of the curriculum, i.e. the "when" question should be answered implicitly.
P. S. cooperative part of PH training should be a tiny, tiny fraction of it; 99% of two-person training should be "cooperative" only on a philosophical level, i.e. you're trying to help each other learn.
windwalker wrote:All things that will answer themselves in time, with exposer to others having developed and use them.
Any type of taiji application is "push hands" ie uses the skill same skill set
windwalker wrote:Really depends on "the teachers focus" provided that it aligns with ones own. One of the bases for choosing a teacher.
windwalker wrote:You really have no basis to understand the differences between them.
windwalker wrote:I would say reading some of your other post, might be a good time to find some sparring partners and explore what you already know and feel you've. been working on...
Appledog wrote:Yet surely there must be some demarcation line -- such as learning the form, first. What do you feel that line is, such that starting push hands will not lead to bad habits down the road?
Appledog wrote:Yet surely there must be some demarcation line -- such as learning the form, first. What do you feel that line is, such that starting push hands will not lead to bad habits down the road?
Bao wrote:I was introduced partner exercises and sensitivity drills from day one. Push hands drills at least within the first month. I was also introduced free push hands very early, in a cooperative, non-competitive manner.
IMO, an early introduction by a decent teacher is important so the student can get a better grasp of how Tai Chi should be used, and the level of softness and sensitivity required. Whole body movement and balance to be used in solo practice will also be better understood by studying partner exercises.
Appledog wrote:windwalker wrote: You really have no basis to understand the differences between them.
If you read my post I said I did. To try and clarify further, i'm not talking about myself.
I already want to learn push hands and I am seeking out people to practice with.
windwalker wrote:2-28 Peace Park Taipei, Taiwan 和平公園 (he2 ping2 gong1 yuan2)
Might be a good place to check your level and gauge what others are doing even if you could only make it once a month...
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