everything wrote:let's say every time i go and kick a ball, i go 110%. i'll get hurt. if tyson shadow boxes, what is "as hard as he can"? if you lift weights, you don't do 1RM every time.
origami_itto wrote:When I hit as hard as I can, I hurt myself.
I practice issuing energy against my heavy bag and try to put as much into it as I can correctly. Mostly what I've found is that what feels more powerful to me is actually producing less energy.
I feel like I get it best in terms of physical results when I pull the mental and emotional content out of the movement and focus on technical qualities, alignment and relaxation, etc
RobP3 wrote:There's a time and a place for everything. It's advisable to explore the full spectrum
RobP3 wrote:Mind you, swearing never helped me to hit harder lol
Sea.Wolf.Forge wrote:origami_itto wrote:When I hit as hard as I can, I hurt myself.
I practice issuing energy against my heavy bag and try to put as much into it as I can correctly. Mostly what I've found is that what feels more powerful to me is actually producing less energy.
I feel like I get it best in terms of physical results when I pull the mental and emotional content out of the movement and focus on technical qualities, alignment and relaxation, etc
Three things here - "Hit 100%, get hurt," "Hit 100%, lose technique," "Enjoy practicing for qualities other than power."
All fine positions, but here's a question: "What if your training allowed you to use the full scope of your power without injuring yourself or losing form." It might not do a lot for your relaxation, but two major sticking points disappear - does hitting hard make your training objectively less enjoyable when risk of injury and loss of form are not an issue?
origami_itto wrote:Every strike has the potential to injure us both, I avoid them wherever possible. You get a lot more precision with less risk out of starting from contact than crashing in. The force of the impact has to go somewhere.
origami_itto wrote:When I hurt myself is when I try to hit hard, when my mental focus is incorrect and the wrong muscles are involved in the wrong way. If the focus is on "as hard as you fucking can" then that is chasing the feeling of hardness not the power itself. What is the objective measure?
origami_itto wrote:Power comes from form, like wayne's siggy says. Then as much as you need is available when and where you need it. It's a much faster approach than simply hitting hard.
Sea.Wolf.Forge wrote:Do you train to do it "As hard as you fucking can" - if so, how and how often? Or do you see no or mixed value in this approach?
Sea.Wolf.Forge wrote:origami_itto wrote:Every strike has the potential to injure us both, I avoid them wherever possible. You get a lot more precision with less risk out of starting from contact than crashing in. The force of the impact has to go somewhere.
IF it's a self-defense situation with no gloves or gear - yep, dangerous for all involved, but that's not what I'm talking about or what 99.9% of practitioners ever experience.origami_itto wrote:When I hurt myself is when I try to hit hard, when my mental focus is incorrect and the wrong muscles are involved in the wrong way. If the focus is on "as hard as you fucking can" then that is chasing the feeling of hardness not the power itself. What is the objective measure?
If form falls to shit, power isn't good. Hitting hard is a combination of proper mechanics and velocity, I don't think this is even a question. "Objective" measure is a bunch of wires and a computer which is rarely accessible outside of a kinesiology lab, partner feedback is anecdotal but readily available - I don't see value in letting perfect be the enemy of good in this context.origami_itto wrote:Power comes from form, like wayne's siggy says. Then as much as you need is available when and where you need it. It's a much faster approach than simply hitting hard.
...Right, but this is where I'm going to say "What if your current "hard" isn't hard enough no matter where you put it," and if you were in that 0.01% situation where a little more might have made a difference between hitting a takedown or incapacitating someone - would you hypothetically regret not training with this glass ceiling in mind more?
johnwang wrote:I used to do about 60 reps like this daily. Since I can't train this on a live person, I see great value there. Just make sure when you stand up your dummy from the ground, try to do it slowly. 85 lbs may not sound much, but after you have repeated it over 60 times and do it every day, it will hurt your elbow joints if you lift it up too fast. I have hurt my elbow joints 3 times by doing this and I have learned a great lesson.
Sea.Wolf.Forge wrote:everything wrote:let's say every time i go and kick a ball, i go 110%. i'll get hurt. if tyson shadow boxes, what is "as hard as he can"? if you lift weights, you don't do 1RM every time.
At no point did I say "all the time" for any training method - The question in my original post was specifically "Do you ever?"
Referencing Tyson (or any professional fighter) is a weird one because they clearly would have explored the full spectrum of training.
Sea.Wolf.Forge wrote:The dummy had been 55lbs, I repacked it up to 85.
everything wrote:whatever the top pros do sounds like what amateurs would look toward (but lower level)?
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