everything wrote:"down with woo woo... more mma! aargh" /s
writing about it, is ok
Showing what was written about
is not
MMA is opposite, they show
Write less... must be different
everything wrote:"down with woo woo... more mma! aargh" /s
origami_itto wrote:I agree that it's about that zhong ding, that earth, and maintaining and returning to wu ji via wu wei.
D_Glenn wrote:
I think way too many people, (provided their goal is to be proficient in self defense, if they’re just doing the hippie tjq then it doesn’t matter.) are practicing Fangsong at too early of a stage. There needs to be Gong Li before you can soften it.
Ideally TJQ is picked up by someone who’s already been practicing a hard style- judo, karate, Shuai Jiao, Shaolin, Wing Chun etc etc. and then they actually need to practice Fangsong because they only have Gong Li.So this is maybe a divergence on fang song. Bear in mind I'm thinking and learning through these conversations. Don't take my tone to think I'm speaking authoritatively, only ever through my own subjective understanding of my own sense data and experimentation.
We talk a lot about fang song/song ch'en as a state, but some teachers also teach this like a give and take process. Song Ch'en, sink down, fang song, release up and out, as components of opening and closing. It's like a relaxing in both directions. The relax and sink creates a tension in the opposition muscles, so we relax and release that and it creates that rising that is tension in the sinking direction again. It didn't really occur to me that you might be referring to something similar to that idea here. Adam Mizner calls it the six harmonies down and long jin out as part of the Song Gong 1 exercise starting at level 2 in his curriculum.
You have to be diligent and precise to practice Gong Li and Qi (a generalized term for internal practices) at the same time. But if you do both Qi exercises and Gong Li then you can have a really long career in martial arts. If you only practice Gong Li it will be a fast but short career. If someone only practices Qi then they aren’t really martial artists to begin with, and they will have a hard time trying to add Gong Li to a limp overcooked noodle. (And this isn’t talking about on a physical level. Physically it’s easy. It’s mentally where they feel it’s incorrect and they’re being taught wrong, and don’t trust or have faith in the process, citing thousands of tjq teachers and books and insist that Fangsong is the only way.)
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origami_itto wrote:But they have the limp arm with no real connection, it's just an empty arm. Relaxed, but empty.
Taste of Death wrote:origami_itto wrote:But they have the limp arm with no real connection, it's just an empty arm. Relaxed, but empty.
They have to have structure not just relaxation. In Han Shi Yi Quan we express through the fingertips. In I Li Quan they spread the hands.
D_Glenn wrote:Appledog wrote:To recap, so far in the thread we find we need to develop a kind of sunk or heavy energy, or even a kind of lightness via possibly, standing and keeping the head alight -- okay, but we also know that isn't peng. I would point out there are too many videos of (especially older) masters with poor back and neck posture demonstrating excellent peng. Yet, so far no one has been able to explain what it is or how to train it. I would have expected at least one person to mention push hands, but I like what you have said here about two first timers. If someone could expand upon that I am sure we would find the answer.
Zhan Zhuang + time = Peng
Xingyi has Peng, Bagua has Peng, Yiquan has Peng but with different qualities that feel differently because each art has different types of Zhan Zhuang.
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origami_itto wrote:Taste of Death wrote:origami_itto wrote:But they have the limp arm with no real connection, it's just an empty arm. Relaxed, but empty.
They have to have structure not just relaxation. In Han Shi Yi Quan we express through the fingertips. In I Li Quan they spread the hands.
I don't know what structure means there. It isn't a matter of the structure. It's not a static shape. It's about the connection between the pieces being open and alive.
windwalker wrote:@ BruceP
Thanks for the kind words, it's been a long road.
everything wrote:@BruceP, that sounds like an excellent experiment and development. Would've loved to walk that road at the time. Similar to what I stumbled upon, but didn't have any "fighty group" to do more testing, nor was I too motivated to look hard (futbol is far more fun, subjectively-objectively). Finding the "right track" is already pretty interesting, I must say. I think that is how IMA will continue. Now imagine if that "fighty group" was among the most talented groups in Beijing at that time, and rather than ww telling you over a forum, someone teaches/shows you, and you are the "Messi" of the group. Then you have the conditions that produced a YLC. It's hard to imagine, but it's also easy to imagine.
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