According to Wikipedia, which we all know is never wrong, Feng didn't start training with Chen Fake until 1953
wayne hansen wrote:Still waiting for the 8 black belts
salcanzonieri wrote:wayne hansen wrote:Still waiting for the 8 black belts
Does it really matter? Haven't done these in over 40-25 years:
- Paul Mueller (deceased) Mei Do system karate (mix of Okinawan karate, Choy Li Fut, and Japanese karate and others)
- Shaolin Long Fist
- Shaolin Staff
- Northern Chinese martial arts (various forms from N Mantis, Tong Bei, Chuao Jiao, Sun Bin, Cha Quan, and others)
- Yang Tai Chi (also learned Tong Bei TJQ, Sun, and Taiwan Chen styles)
- Mixed Internal Chinese Martial Arts (TJQ, XY, Chen and Sun Bagua)
- Modern Wushu Long Fist and weapons
- Mixed Southern and Northern Chinese Martial Arts from Whippany Kung Fu Club
Also learned from Peter Kwok Northern Chinese martial arts schools
wayne hansen wrote:If you want to be taken seriously about the claims you make
You need to stay away from wild statements
Two widely documented theories of Chen's martial arts work exist: the first is that he learnt his arts from Wang Zongyue and the Wudang tradition developed by Zhang Sanfeng.[2] The second theory — the one accepted by the Chen family, and supported by historical evidence[3] — is that he combined his previous military experience and the theories of meridians and Daoyin with the popular teachings of Qi Jiguang.[4] His complete work contained five smaller sets of forms, a 108-move Long Fist[note 1] routine, and a Cannon Fist routine.
Bhassler wrote:What's supported by the Chen family is that there were originally 7 forms-- that one of them was pao chui and that another was a 108 longfist is supposition. No on knows exactly what the 7 forms were, or who combined them, or when.
The connection between Chen Changxing and so-called old frame is also up for debate. That is one claim, but another is that the term new frame and old frame as currently used comes from the "four tigers" who learned from Chen Zhaopi after the cultural revolution, and later when they learned (briefly) from Chen Zhaokui, they saw it was different and called it "new frame", when in reality it was just a difference in their own understanding of what they were seeing based on whatever of the traditional practice was available to them. The current usage of the terms bears no connection to historical uses of the same terms within Chen style taiji.
I personally don't think it matters much, but to present one or the other as de facto academic truth is disingenuous.
origami_itto wrote:Hey Sal I'm interested in your take on the seven forms mentioned here.Two widely documented theories of Chen's martial arts work exist: the first is that he learnt his arts from Wang Zongyue and the Wudang tradition developed by Zhang Sanfeng.[2] The second theory — the one accepted by the Chen family, and supported by historical evidence[3] — is that he combined his previous military experience and the theories of meridians and Daoyin with the popular teachings of Qi Jiguang.[4] His complete work contained five smaller sets of forms, a 108-move Long Fist[note 1] routine, and a Cannon Fist routine.
Specifically, I'm interested in the evolution of the practices.
The claim is the 5 short forms became the old frame, and they were practiced mainly slow.
Then the cannon fist was used to develop power and was practiced mainly hard and fast.
The long fist, (not to be confused with Shaolin long fist, a different system) was then balanced hard and soft, fast and slow.
The next evolution would be the old frame became the yang main form and the long fist tradition became their own long fist/small frame routine none of which was widely transmitted.
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