When form is doin` you

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

When form is doin` you

Postby wiesiek on Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:10 am

Just recently I found myself in such situation.
There are lot of similarity to the "spontaneous qigong" which we were discussing some times ago.
But
Where "s.q." I would compare to the branches grovin` out of the main trunk of the form,
what happen now - is like loop - I mean -you`re returning to the main forms "menu" exactly in the same point, where you`re was leavin`!
What is interesting also - those "loops" has very clear martial meanings, it wasn`t the case in my "s.q" experience.
I have to add, that it happen during my regular /everyday / 14 meridians qigong practice, which is pure health oriented, no MA meaning in any move whatsoever!
haha, When I did some simple math., it come out, that I passed 10.000 repetitions some times ago ... 8-)

Care to share experience?
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Re: When form is doin` you

Postby Bao on Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:53 am

Sorry pal, but I have absolutely no idea what you mean or what you want to discuss.
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Re: When form is doin` you

Postby wiesiek on Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:26 am

In one of the old text /one of the mystic scrolls if you preffer :)/
it is mentioned,
that you will reach the state when you`re doin` the form as much as the form is doin` you...
well,
of course, I may dig in the place which you /or I / may even don`t know ,that exist.
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Re: When form is doin` you

Postby Bao on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:26 am

If I guess, I suspect that you are speaking about the sensation of that the body partially moves by itself through the form. This is an aspect of "pre-heavenly" principle or using pre-natal qi. You compared with qigong but Tai Chi is different from most qigong as most qigong systems focus on post heaven qi. But Tai Chi is derived from neidan from where this theory comes. Sun Lutang (who is one of the few masters who wrote about this), for instance said that this pre-heaven principle should be used in all IMA. He meant that you should always use pre-heavenly qi when you practice and not post-heavenly qi. When you have developed pre-heavenly qi, you can guide your movements with your intent and your body will move at least partially by itself.
Last edited by Bao on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When form is doin` you

Postby wiesiek on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:26 am

Bao,
14 meridian gong is as much nei dan as you can get ,/ this is the last sotp of my research, at list/,
BDW,
funny -My GF TJ /Chen style direct line/ Teacher noticed big improvement in her training /over 7 years already under her belt/, after couple of weeks practicing this gong ,
again,
take note-as I stated before- this gong is not designed for MA purposes
but
follow the scrolls: all gongs are the branches
I found the trunk
me thinkin` :-*
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Re: When form is doin` you

Postby Steve Rowe on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:56 am

I remember discussing the transition of mol gik to tai gik to tai chi with Ma Lee Yang and I said something like 'no intention to intention to movement' and she described tai gik as 'when tai chi arrives' if you are in the right state tai chi does you not the other way around.

I took that to mean that in the absence of self it becomes spontaneous action.
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Re: When form is doin` you

Postby HaraldH on Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:35 am

When I manage to reduce superfluous tension in my movements it does feel like less 'me' , maybe because it is different to my habitual state of mind when 'doing' the form in a more forced way.
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Re: When form is doin` you

Postby GrahamB on Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:01 am

I believe the "when you feel the form doing you" state is a state of the Uber Grand Master. Congratulations. Very soon you will be able to simply sit and watch your minions practice, because you no longer need to exert yourself physically, but will do it all spiritually instead. Occasionally you can invite one of them over to feel your chi. And if she is cute then your chi belly also.
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Re: When form is doin` you

Postby KEND on Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:44 am

I think you are describing the third level of martial development: ming/ahm/fah. Basic training of internal muscles, integrate into nervous system, mind in body/Intent takes place of mind in body, intent outside body/ Body completely integrated, automatically responds to external force vectors-spontaneous. Congratulations
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Re: When form is doin` you

Postby wiesiek on Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:20 am

Thank you,
but, I`m not sure about completely integrated body yet,
I can feel some hard passages in my "qi pathways ", and still makin` >internal weird sounds< -fell like gratings bones...
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Re: When form is doin` you

Postby wiesiek on Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:31 am

haha, Graham
Uber maestro - I like it ,
counting my basic form repetitions,- I passed this magical 10.000 border quite some years ago,
so
I`m walkin` over Uber stairs now :D
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Re: When form is doin` you

Postby BruceP on Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:09 pm

I'd get people into that spontaneous responsive state on their first day of training - where they're 'just along for the ride'.

It's easy to create that state, and repeat it in the solo training.
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Re: When form is doin` you

Postby wiesiek on Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:27 pm

no offense B,
but
we are talkin` about quite distinctive, different, things; definitely .
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Re: When form is doin` you

Postby oragami_itto on Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:59 pm

There's the authentic thing which takes time and training, and the counterfeit "trick" that you can teach someone in a single session. Goes for many of the skills and qualities.
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Re: When form is doin` you

Postby BruceP on Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:27 pm

wiesiek wrote:no offense B,
but
we are talkin` about quite distinctive, different, things; definitely


No. we're definitely talking about the same thing.

Something you wrote in your op,
I have to add, that it happen during my regular /everyday / 14 meridians qigong practice, which is pure health oriented, no MA meaning in any move whatsoever!
, is exactly the same thing as what I was talking about having people do on their first day.

They find tjq fighting method without all the 'fighting' and 'application' bullshit that gets in the way of its discovery simply by getting out of their own way. It's easy...

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