Neigong and Taijiquan?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Neigong and Taijiquan?

Postby Rhen on Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:57 am

GrahamB wrote:Neigong is very important if you have lots of books and videos to sell. ;)


Amazing how many sketchy instructors (ones with marketing) have vague lineages, or not clear on who they learned it from.
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Re: Neigong and Taijiquan?

Postby Doc Stier on Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:00 am

GrahamB wrote:Neigong is very important if you have lots of books and videos to sell. ;)

Neigong is also important for people like me who are interested in perpetuating a long and healthy life. 8-)
Last edited by Doc Stier on Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Neigong and Taijiquan?

Postby everything on Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:31 am

Lol yes
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Neigong and Taijiquan?

Postby Deadmonki on Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:07 pm

Doc Stier wrote:
Rhen wrote:Hu had the first Qigong clinic in Beijing, taught Wuji acupuncture and martial arts.

What is Wuji acupuncture? ???


Hi Doc,

Hu's explanation was that his acupuncture-moxibustion (針灸) related to the Daoism he'd studied. He refers to it as "wuji needle method/skill" (無極針法) wuji zhenfa, and it was a method that employed his Daoist neidan/neigong skill, which he described as using the gongfu attained through cultivation to treat people.

This of course can be interpreted in several ways. Pm me if you like.

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Re: Neigong and Taijiquan?

Postby Doc Stier on Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:25 pm

Got it. Thanks. I assumed that it is a self-identifying name for their proprietary system of practice. :)
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Re: Neigong and Taijiquan?

Postby MiaoZhen on Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:22 am

Yes, the Hunyuan Qigong set is good, although it is a simplification of the Neigong that Feng learned from Hu. Hu originally taught a much wider curriculum to Feng, including his Stick/Ruler sets, as well as seated exercises and meditation. Hu also wrote a few books of course with a wide range of material, although he left a lot of things out. Early on in his teaching Feng taught this larger curriculum to his early disciples (some of whom are still teaching the same), but in his later years simplified things for more mass teaching.

[/quote]

thank You MiaoZhen.

yes, that is good information. As a matter of fact Hu Yaozhen was apparently a student of Zhang Qilin and Jin shan pai as well along with a few other teachers (Xinyi Liu Hui). He is known as one of the pioneers where the term "Qigong" was coined. Hu had the first Qigong clinic in Beijing, taught Wuji acupuncture and martial arts. Sadly he was a victim of the Cultural Revolution for teaching the old ways and was forced in public to wear a dunce hat, etc. and will killed. Some say this may have been Zhang Qilin's fate as well, but not certain as most say he went to the mountain. Hunyuan Qigong is very good. Most neigong is sitting and requires hours of sitting. [/quote]
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Re: Neigong and Taijiquan?

Postby yeniseri on Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:34 am

MiaoZhen wrote:Yes, the Hunyuan Qigong set is good, although it is a simplification of the Neigong that Feng learned from Hu. Hu originally taught a much wider curriculum to Feng, including his Stick/Ruler sets, as well as seated exercises and meditation. Hu also wrote a few books of course with a wide range of material, although he left a lot of things out. Early on in his teaching Feng taught this larger curriculum to his early disciples (some of whom are still teaching the same), but in his later years simplified things for more mass teaching.


Wonderful! It is great that you noted that because of my teachers stated that when the name qigong was used as the main descriptive to describe neging, daoyin, yanghsheng, etc., there was a concerted goal and a reestablishment of a New Qigong" movement that many things were lost in that redevelopment era. The new term of qigong in the 1950s !!! threw many for a loop and people like Hu Yaozhen, Liu Guizhen and others literally had to keep quiet for a long time to save themselves and their families as best they could. As a reference, David Palmer does an excellent job in presenting and documenting this new phase of culture that was heavily manipulated and controlled by political forces.

Link: https://chinesemartialstudies.com/2013/ ... r-culture/
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Re: Neigong and Taijiquan?

Postby Bob on Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:17 pm

Good reference Yeniserie!
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Re: Neigong and Taijiquan?

Postby MiaoZhen on Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:31 pm

Absolutely... David Palmer's work is essential reading in my opinion. I teach Qigong/Taiji at some Chinese medicine schools here in the US and that's on my reading list for students.
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Re: Neigong and Taijiquan?

Postby Rhen on Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:32 am

One thing I've learned about neigong, is not to rely on some of the folks out there if they are not initiated by a Taoist and have met the stages.
Some folks seem to add and take from multiple traditions or not clear on where they learned.

Also there seems to be over emphasis on channels and vessels.

In reality there is no dan tien, only lower diaphragm breathing.
these is no Du or Ren channel, only the spinal cord (cerebral spinal fluid, motor and sensory nerves) and the esophagus that goes down.
while breathing with lower diaphragm can generate heat which is a sign and generation of saliva which is another sign.
the best sign comes from stillness of body where the mind gets quiet and you lose all sense of self and even having a body.
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Re: Neigong and Taijiquan?

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:49 pm

Rhen wrote:In reality there is no dan tien, only lower diaphragm breathing, there is no Du or Ren channel, only the spinal cord.

Wow! Really? Seriously? With all due respect for your opinions, those comments sound like a justification for personal inability to develop your own tan-tien, as well as an excuse for personal failure to open your own meridian channel system. ::)
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Re: Neigong and Taijiquan?

Postby Rhen on Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:56 pm

just playing devil's advocate. I'd be curious if they ever find a "Tan T'ien" in the cadaver of trained qigong monks or something. It is a energy body thing. Nothing but flesh, muscle, intestines, mesentery in the abdomen, oh and lymph nodes, nerves, etc.
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Re: Neigong and Taijiquan?

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:05 pm

Hahaha! Sho, yo right. It's all good. 8-)
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Re: Neigong and Taijiquan?

Postby robert on Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:24 pm

Rhen wrote:just playing devil's advocate. I'd be curious if they ever find a "Tan T'ien" in the cadaver of trained qigong monks or something. It is a energy body thing. Nothing but flesh, muscle, intestines, mesentery in the abdomen, oh and lymph nodes, nerves, etc.

Is wind real? Is there an object you can point to that is wind? Wind is a function. Wind is a function of pressure differentials - yin and yang.

Image

Think of two people playing tug of war. Initially the rope is slack and laying on the ground. If A pulls on it nothing happens to B and if B pulls on it nothing happens to A. A and B have to take the slack out of the rope. If there is tension in the rope, if it is pulled taut, then if A pulls on the rope it also pulls B. Is tension real? Where is it when A and B are done and the rope is rolled up and laying on the ground?
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Re: Neigong and Taijiquan?

Postby RobP3 on Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:27 am

robert wrote:
Rhen wrote:just playing devil's advocate. I'd be curious if they ever find a "Tan T'ien" in the cadaver of trained qigong monks or something. It is a energy body thing. Nothing but flesh, muscle, intestines, mesentery in the abdomen, oh and lymph nodes, nerves, etc.

Is wind real? Is there an object you can point to that is wind? Wind is a function. Wind is a function of pressure differentials - yin and yang.


So qi is basically wind. That explains a lot.
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