The real reason Taijiquan has such a bad rap.

[marvin8]

It is interesting what people see.
In the gif. is the person being "pulled" or is he trying to recover his balance....?

It's clear to see that his left hand pulls his opponent's right wrist. That cause his opponent's body to spin forward.

What I'm trying to say is, Taiji has so much good pulling skill that boxing, Karate, ... don't have. But in most of the Taiji training, the pulling skill is not emphasized.

Taiji, MMA, wrestling, judo, shuai jiao, etc. have both pull and push.

An example is the "pull/push" strategy shown in this thread, "Tai Chi Fa Jin Analysis: Old Man Taiji:"

[wayne hansen]

Why when someone puts their elbows behind their back would you keep chasing their arms while the whole torso is unguarded

[Bhassler]

Why when someone puts their elbows behind their back would you keep chasing their arms while the whole torso is unguarded

It's common in martial arts that people try to win the drill rather than just working on the skill the drill is meant to develop. Broadly speaking, taiji practitioners are among the worst for having this kind of attitude, largely because many don't know the difference.

[johnwang]

It's common in martial arts that people try to win the drill rather than just working on the skill the drill is meant to develop. Broadly speaking, taiji practitioners are among the worst for having this kind of attitude, largely because many don't know the difference.

The stationary PH training just make people not willling to move around. The more that you train it, the less that your skill will be realistic.

If you try to tell people how to use "wheeling step (or stealing step)" to lead your opponent into the emptiness, people only train stationary PH has no idea what you are talking about.

The basic XingYi principle is even if you may not find an opportunity to attack, as long as you keep moving, you will find that opportunity.

I just don't know why Taiji people don't like to move around.

A: My Taiji is so good that you can't move me.
B: My Taiji is so good that you can't touch me.

I believe B is better than A.

[windwalker]

The stationary PH training just make people not willling to move around.
The more that you train it, the less that your skill will be realistic.

If you try to tell people how to use "wheeling step (or stealing step)" to lead your opponent into the emptiness, people only train stationary PH has no idea what you are talking about.

The basic XingYi principle is even if you may not find an opportunity to attack, as long as you keep moving, you will find that opportunity.

I just don't know why Taiji people don't like to move around.

In general principle, agree

One must understand the skill set being developed...


My own answer to the question....of the why..

In China, moving is not really an issue....just makes things safer....in the "practice" of developing, gaining skill sets quite clear....
The skill sets themselves, IME very unique, with out which much of the practice won't work....
Similar to Aikido that is said to be based on AIKI....

example: our fix step practice


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QirFU3h9Yrk

Push hand practice 2003
Mr Bai, a Wu taiji stylist, student of Wang Peisheng
would often come by and. push with members of the group.

The pushing style focused on lightness and change....developing an understanding and ability of
"ting jin" ability to listen to force

Master Zhang in his 80s, shown in the last part of the clip...
Working with Mr Bai....

[wayne hansen]

The listening isn’t good
The yielding isn’t good
The reply is blind and unfocused

[windwalker]

The listening isn’t good
The yielding isn’t good
The reply is blind and unfocused

Just some training,,,,.

its not fighting nor really pushing,,,just feeling what he did...with out doing much...

wayne hansen wrote :If you can’t see the guy in the clip is just playing with the other guy you shouldn’t be talking about fighting

yaa,,,

[wayne hansen]

The first guy is always in balance
Doesn’t matter what the second guy is doing
Fighting ,pushing ,lighthearted playing it is not good quality

[windwalker]

@ JW

johnwang wrote:

The stationary PH training just make people not willling to move around.
The more that you train it, the less that your skill will be realistic.

If you try to tell people how to use "wheeling step (or stealing step)" to lead your opponent into the emptiness, people only train stationary PH has no idea what you are talking about.

The basic XingYi principle is even if you may not find an opportunity to attack, as long as you keep moving, you will find that opportunity.

I just don't know why Taiji people don't like to move around.

In answer to your question, something I noted long ago...




Push hand practice 2003
Mr Bai, a Wu taiji stylist, student of Wang Peisheng
would often come by and. push with members of the group.

The pushing style focused on lightness and change....developing an understanding and ability of
"ting jin" ability to listen to force

Mr. Bai, was / is quite skilled....his take as many in my teachers group this was the format they used as an approach to fighting..
Having just come from the US to meet with the person who would be my last taiji teacher it was quite different.

One might ask what was different.

They do step, did throw, and had no problems knocking people down... With out an understanding and ability to use and express "jin"
using any type of direct force was a bad mistake...

More so if one could not express themselves in the native language ..

Not being able to, doing so would be taken as a direct challenge....ie: trying to win


In the clip I had originally shared my point was to show some of the stepping and intent..
Which at the time, feeling how different it was, was just offering Mr. Bai, a target to express his power against.
interesting and fun..

Found that one often learns more by feeling, allowing others to express their force


Comments by "wayne" show an ignorance, not interested in addressing...
My mistake in sharing some work


In my teachers group they didn't play around....either you were their to train or not,,,
those not...visiting as some did...
.
It was kind of funny also sad watching what happened to them..

What always fascinated me was that those I felt solid as a rock, quite connected able to change fast..
When they encountered my teacher, one did have to wonder whether they were faking it or not....

That is, until one had a chance to interact with my teacher.....

He and others like him, as shown here with the teacher and Mr Bai.




...


with out "jin" often lacking in the practice of others for what ever reason....

The PH practice that you've mentioned becomes rather dead, not really alive....
doesn't cultivate the type of skill
sets that it was designed to..

[wayne hansen]

In the hope of not showing my ignorance once more I call for others who see what I see not to be shy in coming forward
No matter what others say the lack of skill is evident to see for those that can seperate the substantial from the insubstantial
If others can’t see something so obvious or don’t wish to speak I see this is why the art will die within the next generation

[johnwang]

Since both persons have winter jackets on, if his opponent grabs on his jacket, can he still be able to push his opponent away?

Does that mean that "pushing" has no combat value in the winter time when people have heavy clothers on?

[wayne hansen]

The puffy jacket helps in push
Your opponent doesn’t feel your approach and the collapsing jacket aids the push
Practice through a partially inflated yoga ball is good practice

[johnwang]

The puffy jacket helps in push ...

If one can't break his opponent's grips apart, he can't push his opponent away. His body and his opponent's body are connected as one unit.

This is why I don't see much combat usage of "pushing".

[wayne hansen]

More than one way to skin a cat

[marvin8]

The puffy jacket helps in push ...

If one can't break his opponent's grips apart, he can't push his opponent away. His body and his opponent's body are connected as one unit.

This is why I don't see much combat usage of "pushing".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrZF1a8RmR8

Apparently, one can "push" regardless if one is wearing a winter jacket. windwalker's "work, skill sets and jin."

Excerpts from "Volley Jin:"