Wang Yan and Neutralization

[Doc Stier]

Agreed. If they stand behind you, protect them. If they stand beside you, support them. If they stand against you, defeat them, quickly and decisively. You order, you pay. A pretty simple concept to understand.

[Steve James]

You learn to fight by getting hit and thrown and learning you won't die. But, it's not healthy to get hit and thrown all your life practicing for some imagined encounter -where a weapon would probably be more useful.

[origami_itto]

'Street fight' can occur in so many different forms of conflict, though, and it's something that should be explored beyond styles or notions of circumstance. Coming to someone's aid or protecting a loved one/family member might be something that can't be avoided, and one's proactive/aggressive actions would most likely preclude any concerns one might normally have regarding liability.

A 70 year old woman was just sentenced to a couple decades in prison for going overboard defending her son.

When I worked a bar downtown around target center and first avenue they warned us about liability up front. I did a personal bodyguard detail for Cedric the entertainer at a Kappa Alpha party, ejected a DA, told some NBA player he couldn't get in with those sneakers, shit like that.

You can't just max damage every situation. Self defense and sport fighting is a completely different game. You can get a couple tools from sport but honestly you're developing more bad habits than helpful ones if peace is the goal.

In professional security somebody might be having a bad day and a bit too much booze, and you've got to not just protect yourself, but also them, and bystanders, and property, and limit liability. It's not just about superior destructive force.

[johnwang]

'Street fight' can occur in so many different forms of conflict,

I still prefer to talk about sport fight than street fight for the following reasons.

- You can have sport fight tomorrow if you want to. You can't have street fight anytime you want.
- You can have fun in sport fight. You won't have fun in street fight.
- You won't have legal issue in sport fight. You may have legal issue in street fight.
- Less chance to get hurt in sport fight than in street fight.
- In sport fight, you don't have to talk about self-defense, de-escalation, run away, ...
- To attack first is normal in sport fight.
- ...

[everything]

You learn to fight by getting hit and thrown and learning you won't die. But, it's not healthy to get hit and thrown all your life practicing for some imagined encounter -where a weapon would probably be more useful.

Being a “Prepper” is a hobby/fantasy/escape for some people.

To a certain extent, I can understand it.

We should all be “prepped” to some degree.

I’m not sure what the rational amount would be.

[Trick]

'Street fight' can occur in so many different forms of conflict, though, and it's something that should be explored beyond styles or notions of circumstance. Coming to someone's aid or protecting a loved one/family member might be something that can't be avoided, and one's proactive/aggressive actions would most likely preclude any concerns one might normally have regarding liability.

A 70 year old woman was just sentenced to a couple decades in prison for going overboard defending her son.

When I worked a bar downtown around target center and first avenue they warned us about liability up front. I did a personal bodyguard detail for Cedric the entertainer at a Kappa Alpha party, ejected a DA, told some NBA player he couldn't get in with those sneakers, shit like that.

You can't just max damage every situation. Self defense and sport fighting is a completely different game. You can get a couple tools from sport but honestly you're developing more bad habits than helpful ones if peace is the goal.

In professional security somebody might be having a bad day and a bit too much booze, and you've got to not just protect yourself, but also them, and bystanders, and property, and limit liability. It's not just about superior destructive force.

Often it’s people engaged in sport fighting and/or thugs in their own rights that do the Bar-door thing…..

[origami_itto]

'Street fight' can occur in so many different forms of conflict, though, and it's something that should be explored beyond styles or notions of circumstance. Coming to someone's aid or protecting a loved one/family member might be something that can't be avoided, and one's proactive/aggressive actions would most likely preclude any concerns one might normally have regarding liability.

A 70 year old woman was just sentenced to a couple decades in prison for going overboard defending her son.

When I worked a bar downtown around target center and first avenue they warned us about liability up front. I did a personal bodyguard detail for Cedric the entertainer at a Kappa Alpha party, ejected a DA, told some NBA player he couldn't get in with those sneakers, shit like that.

You can't just max damage every situation. Self defense and sport fighting is a completely different game. You can get a couple tools from sport but honestly you're developing more bad habits than helpful ones if peace is the goal.

In professional security somebody might be having a bad day and a bit too much booze, and you've got to not just protect yourself, but also them, and bystanders, and property, and limit liability. It's not just about superior destructive force.

Often it’s people engaged in sport fighting and/or thugs in their own rights that do the Bar-door thing…..

Of the maybe 30 folks I knew doing security, and mind you one of the companies did personal security for people like Usher and events like the RNC in Minneapolis, another did all the music concerts, myself and one other person did any kind of martial arts formally that talked about it and he was into MMA. Trying to be a fighter.

An MMA fight has almost nothing to do with security or self defense. You're good at one aspect of tactical response, big whoop.

[BruceP]

'Street fight' can occur in so many different forms of conflict,

I still prefer to talk about sport fight than street fight for the following reasons.

- You can have sport fight tomorrow if you want to. You can't have street fight anytime you want.
- You can have fun in sport fight. You won't have fun in street fight.
- You won't have legal issue in sport fight. You may have legal issue in street fight.
- Less chance to get hurt in sport fight than in street fight.
- In sport fight, you don't have to talk about self-defense, de-escalation, run away, ...
- To attack first is normal in sport fight.
- ...

I agree, John. It's very difficult to discuss in-depth self-defense practices online beyond basic ideas of how to approach the exploration of one's Personal Combat in terms of their particular circumstance, physical wherewithal, personal readiness, etc. Everyone's circumstance is different. Again, it comes down to perceptions, intent and personal liability.

But you must have trained at least a couple of people whose personal lifestyle or profession/vocation involved the probability of their having to defend themselves or others. If not that, then the odd or rare likelihood that their personal situation/lifestyle/locale/other presented enough of a risk that they felt it worth their time to explore how to overcome a breakdown of avoid-evade-escape strategies. But any discussion of that is best left in the training hall

[johnwang]

But you must have trained at least a couple of people whose personal lifestyle or profession/vocation involved the probability of their having to defend themselves or others. If not that, then the odd or rare likelihood that their personal situation/lifestyle/locale/other presented enough of a risk that they felt it worth their time to explore how to overcome a breakdown of avoid-evade-escape strategies. But any discussion of that is best left in the training hall

A good soldier is a soldier who has blood on his hands (he has killed enemy before). It's very hard to apply the same requirement on a MA person. If we can't really talk about street fight, why not just talk about sport fight?

A: How many people have you killed in the street so far?
B: I can't tell you that.
A: How many tournaments have you won so far?
B: I have won ...

[wayne hansen]

The best thing I did in teaching was get people out of those professions
Not a smart way to spend your life

[D_Glenn]

A good soldier is a soldier who has blood on his hands (he has killed enemy before). It's very hard to apply the same requirement on a MA person. If we can't really talk about street fight, why not just talk about sport fight?

A: How many people have you killed in the street so far?
B: I can't tell you that.
A: How many tournaments have you won so far?
B: I have won ...

My teacher gave a good lecture on this. Everyone is always asking him for some fight stories. He said that you have to know everyone in the audience. Someone who has never been in a fight, might think that you’re a violent sociopath by just describing one fight. So say you tell some people who you know have also been in fights and understand violence, but then they go and tell other people and you still get stuck with the reputation of being a violent sociopath. So basically nothing good will ever come of telling people about it. It’s personal. I know in talking about my own encounters, mainly to try and get rid of some Ptsd around them, I have to first tell the backstory of how I even found myself in those situations in the first place. But I think they still think I’m violent, even though I was defending myself. You can’t win.

[johnwang]

Someone who has never been in a fight, might think that you’re a violent sociopath by just describing one fight.

Different teachers attract different kind of students.

I left my Taiji teacher because he was a Taiji for health person. I stay with my SC teacher all my life because I knew he had fought multiple guys in one Beijing opera theatre.

Teacher B is the kind of teacher that I like.

A: Dear teacher! Do you teach self-defense in your school?
B: I don't teach self-defense. I teach how you force your opponent to defense himself.

[BruceP]

Teacher B is the kind of teacher that I like.

A: Dear teacher! Do you teach self-defense in your school?
B: I don't teach self-defense. I teach how you force your opponent to defense himself.

Also, what D Glenn said...

[D_Glenn]

My teacher talks about when he first wanted to test his skills that the only way to do it, or the traditional way was to go kick down a school. But nobody even really knew how to go about it so they just followed tradition and he fought students from worst to best, then the teachers. Even in that controlled environment he doesn’t talk about any individual fights. So he successfully kicked down a lot of schools and as a bonus to that he also earned the respect of the old grand teachers and was being invited to drink tea, have long discussions about internal arts and borrowed their Quanpu. But then, what traditionally was the next step? -open challenge to anyone. He said that was a young and dumb decision that he hadn’t thought about the long term ramifications of. He basically painted a target on his back and opened the door to being assaulted any time he was walking around the city. But he said it made him train harder because he had to. A little extra motivation that he didn’t have before that. And he couldn’t slack off, or take martial arts casually like everyone else does as they get older.

.

[BruceP]

The best thing I did in teaching was get people out of those professions
Not a smart way to spend your life

I dunno, man. We kinda need hospital staff and other health care workers.

Some of us our fighty group worked in bars and stuff and some of the others worked as nurses and emt. One of our young fellas purposely got a job in a bar just for the experience.