Chen Taiji, why the hate?

[Bob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlUxtqFVkKQ

Dec 21, 2017
Tiantan Park 2008, 陈试太极拳家穿功夫架

Chen-Stil Taijiquan / Taichi Netzwerk Deutschland

[twocircles13]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlUxtqFVkKQ

Dec 21, 2017
Tiantan Park 2008, 陈试太极拳家穿功夫架

Chen-Stil Taijiquan / Taichi Netzwerk Deutschland

Another great example joint locks within push hands and also the form, Chen Yu is Chen Zhaokui’s son, and he has sought to emulate what his father taught.

[wayne hansen]

They are not really pushing
He just puts his hand out and waits to receive the pain

[Giles]

Yes, more of an application demonstration. But nice to see him doing it with Nabil.

[ctjla]

Think the hate is because they don't really teach anyone anything. For example, Zhang Zhijin only really taught his son. When long time students would enter the room, he would immediately shift topics. And Chen Zhenglei is a money printing machine that uses students trained in other arts around to take on challengers. Chen Xiaowang didn't event want to train but the government made him to preserve the lineage.

Spent a good bit of time in China and lived with several highly rated competitors from Anhui and Beijing while in college. It's all about the benjamins.

Everything I've seen or heard about from that line is a joke. Or at least anyone even mildly associated with the government. Never touched Chen Zhonghua so can't comment on him. Same for Chen Yu.


Props to Chen Bing for going hard in push hands privates.

[Trick]

Think the hate is because they don't really teach anyone anything. For example, Zhang Zhijin only really taught his son. When long time students would enter the room, he would immediately shift topics. And Chen Zhenglei is a money printing machine that uses students trained in other arts around to take on challengers. Chen Xiaowang didn't event want to train but the government made him to preserve the lineage.

Spent a good bit of time in China and lived with several highly rated competitors from Anhui and Beijing while in college. It's all about the benjamins.

Everything I've seen or heard about from that line is a joke. Or at least anyone even mildly associated with the government. Never touched Chen Zhonghua so can't comment on him. Same for Chen Yu.


Props to Chen Bing for going hard in push hands privates.

Interesting info, just the kind that will juice up the thread

Did you live in Anhui ? I live in Huainan and Taiji-wise it’s very much Chen-village style here in the town, I only interacted somewhat with one of those teachers into Chen-Taiji and was not impressed, but mostly it was about his mentality.
It’s the usual “Chen Taiji is more martial, just look at this” then they do some stomping and fail’ing which makes it clear they’re not more martial than anyone else, perhaps even lesser.

Adding - I’ve somewhat interacted with a Chen Taiji teacher in Beijing of the Beijing branch he was impressive.
Also I train in Hunyuan-Taiji (teachers in Dalian) and can only say about them - impressive

[Bao]

Think the hate is because they don't really teach anyone anything. For example, Zhang Zhijin only really taught his son. When long time students would enter the room, he would immediately shift topics. And Chen Zhenglei is a money printing machine that uses students trained in other arts around to take on challengers. ... Chen Xiaowang didn't event want to train but the government made him to preserve the lineage.

Now you are speaking about the Chen village guys, not about "Chen Tai Chi". I've also heard that some teachers from that place also try to get together with girls/women at seminars and camps and that people have been really hurt by stuff demonstrated on them. But again, this is about the Chen village. The government/CPC focused on Chen village because they wanted to promote Tai Chi as a sport. The Chen guys were selected, not to teach old skills and knowledge or "secrets", but to turn Tai Chi into a national sport. And that is exactly what they teach, a communist nationalist sport, that is also a tool for promoting China to foreigners. Maybe those guys get some people to "hate Chen Taiji", wouldn't be surprised at all.

[Steve James]

The Chen guys were selected, not to teach old skills and knowledge or "secrets", but to turn Tai Chi into a national sport. And that is exactly what they teach, a communist nationalist sport, that is also a tool for promoting China to foreigners.

I agree that the Chen guys were selected to represent tcc. But, at the time (80s), wushu was what was being promoted more than any tcc here in the US. It was all commercial, but considering where the PRC was at in the 80s, it made sense.

Ya know, I'm not really sure how popular Chen style is in the US. I only know one Chen teacher in NYC, and he doesn't have a school or teach daily. I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but it doesn't seem like Chen style has been that lucrative here. Though, I'm sure Chenjiagou has benefitted. You might be right that it's being promoted as a national sport.

[Urs Krebs]

Chenjiagou in the 80s was a small and poor farmer village. The School that now is owned by CXX/CXW belonged to the government wasn't very successful back then. The Wushuguan in Wenxian with Hotel for foreigners was built in the early 90s and wasn't very successful as well. The run on Chenjiagou began in the 2nd half of the 90s and early 2000s. Why do i know? i was there many times (since 1989) and observed.

I also can't say that my teacher did hold back secrets, he shared openly everything. As everywhere it depends on the human beings, the one you are and the one you meet. I'm always surprised about the statements about the village, but on one side most of them critizing it were never there and the village is not just the CXX/CXW lineage. Buying the former official school from the government doesn't make you automatically the "village" Chen Style representative as there are several lineages in the village both Da Jia and Xiao Jia.

[D_Glenn]

Chen Xiaowang didn't event want to train but the government made him to preserve the lineage.

I didn’t realize that the communists were interested in promoting Taiji way back around 1952. I thought they were in the business of persecuting martial artists during those years. I learn something new everyday.

[Trick]

Chen Xiaowang didn't event want to train but the government made him to preserve the lineage.

I didn’t realize that the communists were interested in promoting Taiji way back around 1952. I thought they were in the business of persecuting martial artists during those years. I learn something new everyday.

Is that the year CXW began studying ?
Back then I don’t think that village even was on the communist map of focus ? But TJQ and other gong fu wasn’t seen as something suspicious back then, wasn’t it during the cultural revolution(began 1966 ended about ten years later)such practice among things was put down ? After that people again was free to eat bitter or whatever ?

[D_Glenn]

Is that the year CXW began studying ?
Back then I don’t think that village even was on the communist map of focus ? But TJQ and other gong fu wasn’t seen as something suspicious back then, wasn’t it during the cultural revolution(began 1966 ended about ten years later)such practice among things was put down ? After that people again was free to eat bitter or whatever ?

Yes. According to his bio.
Liu Yunqiao escaped to Taiwan in 1949 and I was always under the impression that he was escaping from the Communist takeover, because he was a martial artist. My teacher didn’t start teaching openly until the 1980s.

[Trick]

Is that the year CXW began studying ?
Back then I don’t think that village even was on the communist map of focus ? But TJQ and other gong fu wasn’t seen as something suspicious back then, wasn’t it during the cultural revolution(began 1966 ended about ten years later)such practice among things was put down ? After that people again was free to eat bitter or whatever ?

Yes. According to his bio.
Liu Yunqiao escaped to Taiwan in 1949 and I was always under the impression that he was escaping from the Communist takeover, because he was a martial artist. My teacher didn’t start teaching openly until the 1980s.

Umm yes, however lots of teaching went on even during the cultural revolution-

He Jinbao began his study of Yin Style Bagua with Dr. Xie Peiqi in 1971.

https://www.yinstylebaguazhang.com/about_us.html

[D_Glenn]

I can’t even believe that I have to write this: Of course teaching continued throughout that whole time period, there wouldn’t be any martial art lineages in China if that wasn’t the case. My teacher, and thousands of others continued teaching on the down low. They didn’t advertise it. The only time my teacher, Xie Peiqi, didn’t teach, was when he was starving to near death during the 2 year period of the great famine.
When the 1980s came and the communists reversed their stance, it was a 180 degree change, he started publishing some books on qigong and acupuncture. Because he was a well known qi gong practitioner he worked with the government to do some scientific studies on qigong.

[Kelley Graham]

Think the hate is because they don't really teach anyone anything. For example, Zhang Zhijin only really taught his son. When long time students would enter the room, he would immediately shift topics. And Chen Zhenglei is a money printing machine that uses students trained in other arts around to take on challengers. ... Chen Xiaowang didn't event want to train but the government made him to preserve the lineage.

Now you are speaking about the Chen village guys, not about "Chen Tai Chi". I've also heard that some teachers from that place also try to get together with girls/women at seminars and camps and that people have been really hurt by stuff demonstrated on them. But again, this is about the Chen village. The government/CPC focused on Chen village because they wanted to promote Tai Chi as a sport. The Chen guys were selected, not to teach old skills and knowledge or "secrets", but to turn Tai Chi into a national sport. And that is exactly what they teach, a communist nationalist sport, that is also a tool for promoting China to foreigners. Maybe those guys get some people to "hate Chen Taiji", wouldn't be surprised at all.

emphasis mine.

When moving my school to a new location a decade back, we had an open house and community event. A Chinese professor who ran the University of Arizona 'China Culture Bureau' ( I don't remember the name of the entity exactly, but he was quite officious ) attended with a few of his members. ( Falun Gong ish stuff ) After the 10 minute guided standing meditation and partner training things were wrapping up. He approached me and offered this proposal. Very directly so I wouldn't misunderstand, "If you ever decide to schedule an event promoting Chinese Culture (tm), we would be happy to help you with materials and promote your school." Quid Pro Quo. I responded, "Thank you for the offer. If any of your students wish to advance their martial skill through partner training, I would be happy to provide. Just get in touch." So, maybe the hate comes from this sort of 'Ring Road' nonsense.