"minimum effective dose"

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: "minimum effective dose"

Postby D_Glenn on Fri May 10, 2024 9:31 am

Low, mid, and high basin are both height of stance and what section of the body you’re attacking. High basin is fighting at a normal height stance. Mid is slightly crouched. Low Basin is using Lying Steps, or deep lunges. Like in Zhaobao Taijiquan. Attacking the basins is really based on your height, comparable to the population. Even if Men Baozhen was in Low Basin he’s still attacking the middle basin on the average Han Chinese opponent. Where Ma Gui’s high basin is only reaching the mid basin on the average Han opponent. So Ma Gui’s low basin would be at the calve and ankle level against a Manchurian opponent. Men Baozhen couldn’t properly demonstrate Low Basin techniques on Xie Peiqi, so that’s one reason why he had him train with Ma Gui.
Last edited by D_Glenn on Fri May 10, 2024 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
One part moves, every part moves; One part stops, every part stops.

YSB Internal Chinese Martial Arts Youtube
User avatar
D_Glenn
Great Old One
 
Posts: 5449
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Denver Colorado

Re: "minimum effective dose"

Postby Trick on Fri May 10, 2024 8:15 pm

. When I started practicing I wanted to become better than my first teacher.
I don’t know how this sounds like, but something seem not cling right.
The goals should rather be to learn what your teacher teach ? If her/his teachings eventually turn out to be limited then one walk on - it’s the love of walking the road much much rather than the love of being the best, for me at least.
Being the best only reach so far, while the road leads beyond the horizon
Trick
Huajing
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2023 1:56 am

Re: "minimum effective dose"

Postby wayne hansen on Fri May 10, 2024 9:26 pm

Likewise
All I wanted was to learn what my teacher had to teach
No thought of better
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 6015
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: "minimum effective dose"

Postby Bao on Sat May 11, 2024 1:25 am

Trick wrote:
. When I started practicing I wanted to become better than my first teacher.
I don’t know how this sounds like, but something seem not cling right.


Have no idea what sounds wrong. Maybe Jantelagen spooking?

Being better means you need to learn everything your teacher knows, practice better and understand better. Everything my teacher taught me was completely new and I always looked forward to a new lesson.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9151
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: "minimum effective dose"

Postby Trick on Sat May 11, 2024 3:33 am

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:
. When I started practicing I wanted to become better than my first teacher.
I don’t know how this sounds like, but something seem not cling right.


Have no idea what sounds wrong. Maybe Jantelagen spooking?

.

The only person you need to be better than is the person you were yesterday.
- Jenny Lawson
Trick
Huajing
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2023 1:56 am

Re: "minimum effective dose"

Postby origami_itto on Sat May 11, 2024 5:14 am

Trick wrote:
The only person you need to be better than is the person you were yesterday.
- Jenny Lawson

Word. I'm not trying to be better than you, I'm trying to be better than me.

Although I was dating this stripper for a while who once accused me of thinking I was better than her because I read books.

I told her it was on the list.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1_6FlQfbho
The form is the notes, the quan is the music
Free Tai Chi Classes
Atomic Taijiquan|FB|YT|Twitch
User avatar
origami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 5466
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Palm Bay, FL

Re: "minimum effective dose"

Postby Bao on Sat May 11, 2024 7:33 am

Trick wrote:
The only person you need to be better than is the person you were yesterday.
- Jenny Lawson


Have no idea about what point you are trying to make. If you want to become better at something than someone else you must improve yourself. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive.

If you don't let others inspire you and show your potential, you will not have a clear goal. Your idea of what you want to achieve will be fussy and your progress will go slower. The bigger the goal, the more you will have t fight for it.

"Being better than the person you were yesterday" is excellent, but you need more than that. Alone it will not help you achieve anything in life. Whatever you do in life you need to be better than other people. If not it means that you are the worst at everything, so you won't get a job, come last in every sport and you will be lonely because your social skills will be worse than everyone else.

Aim to reach for the stars. Maybe you can't reach them, but maybe you can end up in a tree top. If you don't strive to achieve something you will stay on the same place and same level even if you every day become "better then the person you were yesterday."
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9151
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: "minimum effective dose"

Postby origami_itto on Sat May 11, 2024 8:13 am

If I let the examples of others define my targets I can only ever achieve an imitation.
The form is the notes, the quan is the music
Free Tai Chi Classes
Atomic Taijiquan|FB|YT|Twitch
User avatar
origami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 5466
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Palm Bay, FL

Re: "minimum effective dose"

Postby Bao on Sat May 11, 2024 8:34 am

origami_itto wrote:If I let the examples of others define my targets I can only ever achieve an imitation.


Also rubbish.

Just as like Wayne has said several times, skill translates from hand to hand. By touching and experience the skill of a good teacher, your goal is formed. Your goal/target is defined in the relationship with others and not solely alone with your own brain.

Again, trying to achieve the same skill as others and grow as a person are not mutually exclusive.

There's this saying: "knife Sharpens on Stone. Man Sharpens on Man."
Last edited by Bao on Sat May 11, 2024 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9151
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: "minimum effective dose"

Postby origami_itto on Sat May 11, 2024 9:31 am

Sorry your philosophy is hot garbage. Comparing myself to others is degrading and a sign of deep rooted insecurity and feelings of inadequacy.
Last edited by origami_itto on Sat May 11, 2024 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
The form is the notes, the quan is the music
Free Tai Chi Classes
Atomic Taijiquan|FB|YT|Twitch
User avatar
origami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 5466
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Palm Bay, FL

Re: "minimum effective dose"

Postby Trick on Sat May 11, 2024 8:47 pm

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:
The only person you need to be better than is the person you were yesterday.
- Jenny Lawson


Have no idea about what point you are trying to make. If you want to become better at something than someone else you must improve yourself. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive.

If you don't let others inspire you and show your potential, you will not have a clear goal. Your idea of what you want to achieve will be fussy and your progress will go slower. The bigger the goal, the more you will have t fight for it.

"Being better than the person you were yesterday" is excellent, but you need more than that. Alone it will not help you achieve anything in life. Whatever you do in life you need to be better than other people. If not it means that you are the worst at everything, so you won't get a job, come last in every sport and you will be lonely because your social skills will be worse than everyone else.

Aim to reach for the stars. Maybe you can't reach them, but maybe you can end up in a tree top. If you don't strive to achieve something you will stay on the same place and same level even if you every day become "better then the person you were yesterday."

If thats your way I’ll guess it’s good for you.

I’m sure we all have achieved goals, but for me I never set my goals on a wish of being better than any fellow beings …..it’s just is not my way and I would probably fail every goal if I tried elbowing my way forward.
Last edited by Trick on Sat May 11, 2024 9:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Trick
Huajing
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2023 1:56 am

Re: "minimum effective dose"

Postby Trick on Sat May 11, 2024 9:25 pm

Bao wrote:
There's this saying: "knife Sharpens on Stone. Man Sharpens on Man."

Stone, scissor(knife), bag - who is the winner and looser, which is the best to be ?
All are of equal importance, in the big picture of the whole non of them is and will not be better than the other
Last edited by Trick on Sat May 11, 2024 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Trick
Huajing
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2023 1:56 am

Re: "minimum effective dose"

Postby Giles on Sat May 11, 2024 11:53 pm

Actually one of the most essential questions in society, in business, in politics, in culture, in personal interactions, in your sense of self-worth - although the question is often more implicit than explicit:
"To what degree do you regard life as a zero-sum game?"

It took me years to realize how accultured I was to zero-sum thinking and that usually I can be more relaxed and happy and constructive when I free myself from this (subconscious) mindset. Sure, some things really are zero sum, but many more don't have to be even when you assume they are.
Do not make the mistake of giving up the near in order to seek the far.
Giles
Wuji
 
Posts: 1376
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:19 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: "minimum effective dose"

Postby origami_itto on Sun May 12, 2024 4:59 am

The question of wanting to be better than others just...

Everybody always wants to prove they're better than you. The better you are the more they come for you, who needs it?

Who am I trying to be better than? My teacher? His dad made him practice for hours every day after school since he was 5 and he's like ten years older, no chance in hell I'm ever gonna catch him. Trying to be better than him is simply delusional.

So what about the other folks? Sure I can surpass others but so what? Does that mean I stop getting better? I'm better than them, that's my goal, why keep working? Easy wins are boring.

I've got a friend who is studying with a well known master's senior student, and we're both putting in work, every time we meet we're both better and so is the work.

Just seems like all my life people try to make my life more difficult because they are afraid I'm going to take their status or woman or money or whatever, I don't rightly understand it, just bebopping along trying to be better than I was. They're worried about who's better.

I'm "highly gifted" that's why I make autistic kids. Most shit that people compete about and struggle over isn't even challenging for me. Most of what they obsess over isn't interesting to me. Up to and including status and achievement. Chop wood carry water.

I don't care about being better than other people I really just want to do cool stuff and be left alone by haters. I just work on being better than I am, so there's no limit and no disappointment, just the joy of the practice.

I'd hate to wind up old, bitter, and paranoid like some of these folks
Last edited by origami_itto on Sun May 12, 2024 5:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
The form is the notes, the quan is the music
Free Tai Chi Classes
Atomic Taijiquan|FB|YT|Twitch
User avatar
origami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 5466
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Palm Bay, FL

Re: "minimum effective dose"

Postby everything on Sun May 12, 2024 6:41 am

Be like water. Or something.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
“most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. Source of all true art & science
User avatar
everything
Wuji
 
Posts: 8413
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: USA

PreviousNext

Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests