Chen Taiji, why the hate?

[D_Glenn]

One time when we were talking about Taijiquan my Bagua teacher showed me the Chansi Gong and how it links to the Dantian. I put my palm on his abdomen and it feels like a finger pokes into your palm and then as the arm is moving in circles the ‘fingertip’ moves in a circle that perfectly matches the movement of the arm. When the arm stops it stops. When the arm reverses direction, it reverses direction. Years later when I met CXW he let me put my hand on his abdomen and feel the same thing. Even though I felt it before it’s still a creepy feeling and you want to flinch away. He was lecturing that doing the form is more important than Chansi Gong. And that it’s really the form and all the martial training that develops this. Chansi gong is just to refine that connection to the Dantian.

I was wondering if anyone has felt this or practices this?

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[windwalker]

One time when we were talking about Taijiquan my Bagua teacher showed me the Chansi Gong and how it links to the Dantian. I put my palm on his abdomen and it feels like a finger pokes into your palm and then as the arm is moving in circles the ‘fingertip’ moves in a circle that perfectly matches the movement of the arm. When the arm stops it stops. When the arm reverses direction, it reverses direction. Years later when I met CXW he let me put my hand on his abdomen and feel the same thing. Even though I felt it before it’s still a creepy feeling and you want to flinch away. He was lecturing that doing the form is more important than Chansi Gong. And that it’s really the form and all the martial training that develops this. Chansi gong is just to refine that connection to the Dantian.

I was wondering if anyone has felt this or practices this?

.

My teacher once asked me to watch this...

He could make what looked like a small ball move under his skin, it looked quite strange not normal..he could throw a person touching him with any point on his body...
the same feeling as mentioned when touching his abdomen. He did teach what looked to be simple exercises related to this, without not being obviously related
as any type of forced movement would not allow what is thought to be developed, develop in a natural way..

In the practice, the idea is that one can not change or make another person change...
They can only change themselves


The reactions that many question the difference in "potential " of the change ...

[D_Glenn]

It’s always a good thing to hear “watch this” or “come here and feel this.”

Ken Fish has mentioned seeing someone doing that. I think my teacher can do it but he was only talking about it, (I think it’s called Rou Tuan?) but not at the same time he was showing me the Chansi Gong. I think, it is somehow related, but I can’t say one way or the other. I believe the Chansi gong one works in both ways. The arm can move it, while it can also move the arm. It’s some link between the two that can form from constantly moving from your Dantian.

[Trick]

Why aren't they all high ticket, seminar filling revenue machines?

You have to want to do it or it doesn't work. This is the problem with kids classes. You can try and make it exciting and colorful but you are only prolonging the inevitable. Your only hope is that they learn to like it because it reinforces their self-esteem. Nobody "wants" to learn martial arts anymore. I did actually find one kid who is really into it and really wants to learn but the parents aren't very serious about paying for lessons.

Those stories of starting at an early age, running through endless yilu reps and emerging an invincible sort of super saiyan master are romantic though.

Did you ever try to do this? There were several times in my life where I was able to train 4+ hours a day for months at a time, and during those times I quickly eclipsed everyone around me. If it wasn't for those experiences I wouldn't be at the place where I am now. I had some experiences, I had some times, but even with what I was able to learn and the time I had, I didn't really get what I wanted. However, I did train enough to realize why I didn't get what I wanted, it was because I didn't train enough.

I'm sure if I could just add another four hours to my training schedule each day that everything would be okay. And so I cannot believe someone like CXW is in any kind of poor position, I mean I don't know the guy, but I really don't get it. I would do anything for just a little bit more money so I could quit my day job and just do kung fu. And some people have it on a silver platter and don't want to train? Does this make sense to anyone?

The universe may not be so easily in giving us what we want but more open to what we need….

[Trick]

One time when we were talking about Taijiquan my Bagua teacher showed me the Chansi Gong and how it links to the Dantian. I put my palm on his abdomen and it feels like a finger pokes into your palm and then as the arm is moving in circles the ‘fingertip’ moves in a circle that perfectly matches the movement of the arm. When the arm stops it stops. When the arm reverses direction, it reverses direction. Years later when I met CXW he let me put my hand on his abdomen and feel the same thing. Even though I felt it before it’s still a creepy feeling and you want to flinch away. He was lecturing that doing the form is more important than Chansi Gong. And that it’s really the form and all the martial training that develops this. Chansi gong is just to refine that connection to the Dantian.

I was wondering if anyone has felt this or practices this?

.

Yes I can somewhat have some “micro” movement of my lower abdominal area by just applying the mind without any other direct physical movement attached, sometimes that area muscles just begin moving by themselves especially when I lay down and especially after doing some serious tongbeiquan basics training, it was nothing I strived to pursue it just came around one day.

[Appledog]

One time when we were talking about Taijiquan my Bagua teacher showed me the Chansi Gong and how it links to the Dantian. I put my palm on his abdomen and it feels like a finger pokes into your palm and then as the arm is moving in circles the ‘fingertip’ moves in a circle that perfectly matches the movement of the arm. When the arm stops it stops. When the arm reverses direction, it reverses direction. Years later when I met CXW he let me put my hand on his abdomen and feel the same thing. Even though I felt it before it’s still a creepy feeling and you want to flinch away. He was lecturing that doing the form is more important than Chansi Gong. And that it’s really the form and all the martial training that develops this. Chansi gong is just to refine that connection to the Dantian.

I was wondering if anyone has felt this or practices this?

.

I don't really know what I'm doing. When I am doing certain movements, my dantian appears to move in order to support the motion of the body. This seems to be a natural result of trying to co-ordinate the movements and breathing. The most powerful movements are when I do movements similar to sun style open and close, or 'draw the bow on both sides', which feels like it is closing in on the front, like what would happen if you poked a soft ball, the front of the ball would form two ridges which would get closer to each other as it folded in. Another powerful kind of feeling is a forward and backward (up and down) kind of force which causes or co-relates with the water channel to lengthen and contract. It's also useful in bow stance where I can 'lock in' the stance by 'tucking in the tailbone'. There are other kinds of movements, which feel like the dantian area is both moving, or rather, not moving, because it appears to be co-ordinated with the movement. It's a different kind of feeling. Almost like it is not moving, but because the body is moving it is clearly moving. If it wasn't moving it would be sluggish. So, it is like it's not moving, but I think, somehow, this is a development. The main appearance of this third kind of force is when twisting the body, where the 'internal motion', or, not motion (???) stabilizes the body and keeps the stance connected. I have most recently experienced this with standard silk reeling (left and right) where the stance seems "locked in" during the motion. It can sometimes take great effort to move the dantian in this way. I am as of yet still experimenting if this is really moving FROM the dantian or using it as a driver, or merely a CO-ORDINATION. Frankly, I consider the training method an INDUCTION. So there are various modes. It's all really quite interesting.

When I play with this kind of motion, it helps me do certain kinds of fajing in my chen style. Most notably, step up to seven stars, and the fajing at the end of the form. It is both, moving the body around a central point, and also, the dantian is a sphere-like object which can move in various ways, and also, a sort of whipping motion, depending on how you want to try and use it. But the main point is that you have some amount of control over the central area, which allows you to move more efficiently and with more control and balance.

The more qigong and tai chi I do the more I discover about this kind of movement.

As for dantians poking out, never felt it, but I did feel a finger poke my dantian. But it wasn't a physical finger. That is the skill I find most interesting.

[windwalker]

From the combat point of view, do you think "leg skill" should be included in the Taiji PH training?

mmmm, maybe for some it's there already



Taijiquan push-hand hug and fall, a simple and practical quick fall training demonstration.

"Master Fang: the sixth-generation inheritor of Yang-style Taijiquan; the sixth-generation inheritor of Wu-style Taijiquan; the sixth-generation inheritor of Wu-style Taijiquan; the twelfth-generation inheritor of Chen-style Taijiquan; Wang Qihe, the fourth-generation Taijiquan Heirs from generation to generation"

[wayne hansen]

This might be the reason

https://youtu.be/fSSYmvpfbHw?si=KpvKCR8IkGCE3oGU

[Bao]

This might be the reason

Think you might be on to something...

[D_Glenn]

This might be the reason

https://youtu.be/fSSYmvpfbHw?si=KpvKCR8IkGCE3oGU

That’s the Sanshou / FaLi / 3rd form. CXW told me that everyone is always asking him to teach them the 3rd form, and he tells them that you have barely practiced the 1st form, why would you want to go and learn a whole bunch more movements. Just practice the 1st form using Fali in every move and you will get the same quality as the 3rd form.

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