origami_itto wrote:So there's a thing we do that is never really spoken of explicitly that I'm aware of and that I am curious what you think of....
So in some forms (sequence of movements such as push, press, withdraw and push, etc) the hand will stay in the same point in space relative to the earth, while the rest of the player's body moves. It always seems to me a little bit like a mime pretending their hat is anchored in space and they just can't move it....
marvin8 wrote:
... Cejudo's follow step (not taiji) is used for stability, distance deception (yin), entering and explosive power. Ms Dong is pushing, then follow stepping. Cejudo is feinting to hide his follow step, luring a reaction from the opponent, intercepting, then stepping in with a takedown.
marvin8 wrote:At 3:06, ZMQ:
1. presses (ji) causing Gibbs to roll back (lu) 2. as Gibbs shifts his weight to the front foot and attacks, ZMQ adheres by bending his arm 3. while bending his arm, ZMQ slightly rolls back, then shifts his weight to the front foot (shortens lu) and issues push with forearm (ward off/Ti Fang RSF thread), attached->resistance->withdraw->acceleration (li?).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSYPOhSgiis&t=3m6s
Similar mechanics and timing. Wilder in post fight interview, "I was making him reach, trying to keep my distance. I had to circle. I set him up, allowed him to reach then. when he reached, I attacked. "
In Wilder vs Helenius, Wilder:
1. steps back luring Helenius to follow 2. as Helenius shifts his weight to the front foot and punches, Wilder rolls back, then shifts his weight to the front foot and issues short right hand KOing Helenius:
origami_itto wrote:Maintaining "4oz of pressure" during push hands drills is a way to work on this idea, being aware of and seeking to maintain that consistent pressure while moving not only your body, but the point of contact itself.
I don't know what it's called, but you can combine it with listening and the storing-moving-releasing skills and you've got a good bit of taijiquan in my humble opinion.
AJQuintov on Dec 5, 2020 wrote:Points of Engagement
... The pieces meet in the middle of the board, and the first to make a move that gives ground to the enemy is often the player who loses the game. As the checkers, only able to move forward, crowd toward the center line they eventually run out of safe spaces, and must step into a square threatened by the enemy....
Deep Analysis:
When there is only one active point of engagement on the board, or only one viable move for a player after a position is reached, then it's often beneficial to search for the reply that continues to force only one or two possible moves from them on the next turn. This way, the one who initiates the sequence of moves can expect to accurately predict which moves will be best. If or when an opponent deviates from what seems to be the best possible line of moves, then they can usually be punished.
origami_itto wrote:Motion and stillness can get a bit overwhelming when you start to break it down.
It only exists relative to something. The earth, our opponent, our own bodies.
origami_itto wrote:Engagement takes many forms and I believe it's a mistake to say taijiquan doesn't contain something. The 13 postures operate across all the layers and perspectives of human existence.
At it's most basic level taijiquan can be said to use the honeypot gambit for enticing the opponent into poor decisions, but we also split, gaze left, look right,, etc.
There are various means and methods for influencing others baked into the art, offensively, defensively, and cooperatively. Of course, conversely it should also be teaching us how to resist others using the same or similar methods.
origami_itto wrote:I'm talking about a particular concept. Freedom of movement while applying constant pressure. If we want to abstract it out into contactless scenarios sure why but but I think wrapping our head around the contact based application of the principle is task enough for the immediate discussion.
origami_itto wrote:I don't take issue with you trying to map taijiquan concepts onto MMA but I think you're stretching the bounds of the particular terms you're using to describe them. It might be more useful to get a little closer to the actual meanings of the jargon.
marvin8 wrote:origami_itto wrote:I'm talking about a particular concept. Freedom of movement while applying constant pressure. If we want to abstract it out into contactless scenarios sure why but but I think wrapping our head around the contact based application of the principle is task enough for the immediate discussion.
That's what I thought you were talking about. I believe push/pull is a better description than constant pressure. There are times when you press, other times when you lead the opponent into emptiness..
origami_itto wrote:marvin8 wrote:origami_itto wrote:I'm talking about a particular concept. Freedom of movement while applying constant pressure. If we want to abstract it out into contactless scenarios sure why but but I think wrapping our head around the contact based application of the principle is task enough for the immediate discussion.
That's what I thought you were talking about. I believe push/pull is a better description than constant pressure. There are times when you press, other times when you lead the opponent into emptiness..
Pushing and pulling are different things what I'm talking about is getting to a place where you can pull or push more effectively without indicating you are doing that.
There's a wrestling drill where you go from a clinch to a takedown by loosening up and flowing around your opponents arms to get to their body.
It works because you're still giving the same pressure,or even pulling back a little. While moving in.
Constant pressure doesn't mean a lot of pressure. Just consistent pressure.
Consider this idea along with the stories of the thread test.
marvin8 wrote:At Alex Volkanovski vs Korean Zombie, Alex (UFC Featherweight Champion) drills and executes:
1. Starting from outside fighting range, Alex steps right leading Zombie (in orthodox stance) to step left 2. Alex raises lead hand (yin) 3. listens (ting) for Zombie to shift his weight to the back foot (double weight) 4. Alex controls Zombie's rear arm and center with his lead hand (na, hua) 5. then hop steps and issues (fa) left front cut/osoto gari:
marvin8 wrote:origami_itto wrote:
Consider this idea along with the stories of the thread test.
Well, here is shuai chiao's front cut (or judo's osoto gari or wrestling's outside trip), which some say is in taiji. I can't find a taiji person executing it in a high-level fight.marvin8 wrote:At Alex Volkanovski vs Korean Zombie, Alex (UFC Featherweight Champion) drills and executes:
1. Starting from outside fighting range, Alex steps right leading Zombie (in orthodox stance) to step left 2. Alex raises lead hand (yin) 3. listens (ting) for Zombie to shift his weight to the back foot (double weight) 4. Alex controls Zombie's rear arm and center with his lead hand (na, hua) 5. then hop steps and issues (fa) left front cut/osoto gari:
origami_itto wrote:Energy
everything wrote:origami_itto wrote:Energy
or maybe intent
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