IT/IS

[Doc Stier]

Doc, do you think the guy with the sledge hammer knows anything about fascia and spiderman costumes?

Shooter:

I'm willing to bet that none of those old steel workers ever even heard the terms spoken. After all, how smart could they have been to take a job working 75+ stories above the pavement without a net, regardless of the pay?

I can't help with the laughing emoticon, but maybe this will hold ya over until someone figures that out for us.

[Chris Fleming]

Let's hear it from Mr Scream:

[BruceP]

Doc, do you think the guy with the sledge hammer knows anything about fascia and spiderman costumes?

"Oy! I need you men to go pin the fascia up on the 14th floor!"

"Aye!...let us get into our spiderman costumes first"

spiderman, spiderman...he can anything a spider can

[Doc Stier]

Doc, do you think the guy with the sledge hammer knows anything about fascia and spiderman costumes?

"Oy! I need you men to go pin the fascia up on the 14th floor!"

"Aye!...let us get into our spiderman costumes first"

spiderman, spiderman...he can anything a spider can

Y'all go on ahead. I'll be right behind ya. Left my costume in the truck. Gotta go down and get it first.

[dps]

Dan, just curious. Have you met the high ranking aikikai guys? Yamada, Moriteru, etc.

Whats their skill level, in a IP/Aiki context?

Yes
I have trained with a series of the big guns in AIkido and Daito ryu. (snip)

You have trained with Yoshimitsu Yamada Sensei, as a student or as a teacher and the other big guns, were you the student or teacher?

David

[edededed]

Hmm - anyone have experience with the "ki no kenkyukai" (ki society), a.k.a. shinshintoitsu aikido folks? Before I got involved with CIMA, I did a bit of that - there were some similarities, and there were some folks with some geniune power (at least according to my memory).

They have a rather unique curriculum and method to train such things in that school...

[Bhassler]

Thanks for the videos. There's nothing overly special or mysterious about either of the drills shown. The skills are good, and there's no need for vague references to anything that can't be tested on a person to person basis. Most taiji people can do those things to greater or lesser degrees-- the problem from the taiji side is they never take it any further.

As far as referring to fascia, it's all well and good to seek a neutral terminology, but fascia ain't necessarily it. Fascia is a flavor of the day pseudo-scientific theory about what might be going on mechanically to transmit force. I guess it's up for debate whether that's any better than using unclear terms native to a particular art or not.

Shooter--
Have you ever tried your exercise in the shower? You're not up high nor are your feet on a narrow beam, but with your eyes closed it doesn't really matter, and being under running water adds another layer of sensory confusion. I guess if you could do it on the beam in the rain that would be even better...

[BruceP]

Shooter--
Have you ever tried your exercise in the shower? You're not up high nor are your feet on a narrow beam, but with your eyes closed it doesn't really matter, and being under running water adds another layer of sensory confusion. I guess if you could do it on the beam in the rain that would be even better...

heh...we weren't allowed to work on steel in the rain. But I definitely see where you're going with the idea. The shower's too familiar, but outdoors in the rain may open up other avenues for sure.

I did want to ask you a couple of questions about the exercise though, if you don't mind.

Which foot did you have forward? Did you try it both ways, and if so, did you get a different experience from right and left leads?

Also, from what you were able to take away from the drill, where might a person take that experience toward further development?

One of the reasons I ask I because I think this IP/IS/IT bs goes far, far beyond just gettin yer tool on. Thanks,

Bruce

[bailewen]

Here's forum member WVMark using another person to help him develop the same internal adjustments that come from Shooter's exercise (at least according to my own experience):



This kind of training was the basis of some of the really good Wu style Taiji training I saw in Shanghai.

You know....This clip needs to be shown in the context of this other clip, "The Nikyo Test":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSKMkqJv ... re=related

I've been sitting on this idea for a couple days not because I am not quite sure how to express it or exactly what value I find int he exercises being shown in that series of clips so bear with me.

The push test is where Nikyo, as I understand it, should be applied. I was watching Bodywork's comments about nobody doing Nikyo on him and thought....so what. I think Nikyo, as shown, is a shitty technique. The lock that I favor that locks the wrist, arm, etc. with those angles, can simply not be applied in an effective manner unless the other person is pushing in pretty much the same fasion as is shown in the "push test" clip. If you absorb the push, swallow it, redirect the lines of force back out through the bones of the pushers hand on the pinky finger side, then his push becomes the same sort of lock as Nikyo. You can secure the arm at the hand or at the elbow, I find the elbow to be more organic. When pushed on your center, you naturally fold in such a way that your hands will fall organically onto the pushers elbow. I feel that those two clips sort of dance around the skill from opposite sides but never quite get there. I'm intrigued because although I have this skill, I am completely unclear how I got it. Shifu managed to teach it to me but I have no system to pass it on. He just did it on me enough times that I understood it. I think also that acquiring this skill is, perhaps, impossible without doing a lot of reverse dan tian breathing as it is that breathing that creates the body method that allows for the folding and swallowing to occur.

I really like the clips though because I think they may present a way to acquire the skill that is more methodical and reliable than the method I used which was basically just the breathing practice and lots of reps of my taiji form with one move in particular that I think really highlighted it for me.

Interesting stuff.

[dps]

The problem with the above video clips is that they do not represent the Aikido techniques as they are meant to be applied. Understand that the Aikido technique being applied in the second video clip (nikkyo) would never even be attempted in this manner. Also there is inadequate distance between the two opponets.

If you are going to show how a principle would work against an Aikido technique , demonstrated it with a committed attack, starting with proper distance between nage and uke and uke being unbalanced.

David

[Bhassler]

Shooter--
Have you ever tried your exercise in the shower? You're not up high nor are your feet on a narrow beam, but with your eyes closed it doesn't really matter, and being under running water adds another layer of sensory confusion. I guess if you could do it on the beam in the rain that would be even better...

heh...we weren't allowed to work on steel in the rain. But I definitely see where you're going with the idea. The shower's too familiar, but outdoors in the rain may open up other avenues for sure.

I did want to ask you a couple of questions about the exercise though, if you don't mind.

Which foot did you have forward? Did you try it both ways, and if so, did you get a different experience from right and left leads?

I initially had left foot forward and most of my weight on my right. I swithced it and ended up with more weight on my right again. I thought about the idea of right side indicating thought, and that seems to fit my personality. I tried it again last night and my weight ended up gravitating towards the front foot regardless of which way I stood, but I felt my whole body leaning to the right. I've had the right-sidebending pattern for a long time, but I've never thought of addressing it from a thought vs. feeling perspective before.

Also, from what you were able to take away from the drill, where might a person take that experience toward further development?

One of the reasons I ask I because I think this IP/IS/IT bs goes far, far beyond just gettin yer tool on. Thanks,

Bruce

The thing that struck me physically was the feeling of my body being something like a bag of water with a pendulum inside-- sort of a shifting, sloshing sort of feeling. On a mechanical level, the most direct thing would probably be to take that same sort of feeling and try to apply it to form/drills/whatever. There's another element to it that applies strategically to taiji and also might have some interesting ramifications in daily life that is what I think of as a feeling of surrender-- just riding the wave, or maybe more like getting swept up and tossed around inside the wave and knowing that eventually everything floats to the surface and just to wait for it and let it come.

I'm looking for a higher/scarier place to do this. Right now I feel the risk of falling but not as much of the sense of real abandon and letting go I suspect it might take to do it in what's been referred to as a more urgent situation. There's some stuff there I suspect will happen but I'll wait until I try it to comment.

B-

[Void]

I have vertigo - I grew up with that feeling.

[GrahamB]

The thing that struck me physically was the feeling of my body being something like a bag of water with a pendulum inside-- sort of a shifting, sloshing sort of feeling. On a mechanical level, the most direct thing would probably be to take that same sort of feeling and try to apply it to form/drills/whatever. There's another element to it that applies strategically to taiji and also might have some interesting ramifications in daily life that is what I think of as a feeling of surrender-- just riding the wave, or maybe more like getting swept up and tossed around inside the wave and knowing that eventually everything floats to the surface and just to wait for it and let it come.

While I haven't got the equipment/place to try Shooter's exercise, what you've just described getting from it is exactly what I feel when working on 'sinking' in Tai Chi. Cool!

Everybody feels it in a different way of course. To me I think of it like this:



Remember those little doll things with the weight at the bottom, so that no matter how much you try to flip them over they always stand up?

Things I've done in the past to help with this are:

1) do the form on uneven ground/grass
2) do the form on a slope, starting looking up the slope. Then start looking down the slope.
3) do the form on a slope, starting facing to the side, so one leg starts higher than the other, then other side.
4) do the form on a pile of logs - this is by far the hardest because it's a shifting surface. Do not compromise your movement!

[shawnsegler]

Weebles wobble but they don't fall down.

[GrahamB]

Weebles wobble but they don't fall down.

Exactly!