"B.K. Frantzis" or "Mantak Chia" system recommendation?

[Samoobramba]

Thanks CaliG! I apreciate your suggestions.

[chrislomas]

Graham
Always a good question If someone phones me and asks to learn this art I always suspect they are a fruitloop and 9 out of ten are, that is why I only usually teach it to senior students who I know are interested and I certainly don't 'sell' this art. I mean why would anyone choose to dangle something off their cock?

The reason I took this up is simply that this the major way my teacher got his power, health, strength, vitality and seeing what he had (despited at the time being three times my age) I wanted it! I would never have dreamed of doing it or have sought a teacher out to learn such a strange seemingly 'fettishy' art if I hadn't seen the results on my teacher and my seniors and already 'known' them. Of course being involved with this art immediately (and understandable) means many presume you are a bit, well, weird .

However some of the main benefits I attribute to it are:
i. Body hardening - within 6 months of taking it I could take an ungloved punch to the torso/limbs without bruising or pain from 95% of people.
ii. Health - I hardly ever suffer any illness and haven't visited a doctor since a decade ago when I learn't it (except for injections when travelling) - I a not naturally one of those guys who never gets sick.
iii. Dantien Power - think of squatting monkey with weights! Okay perhaps a poor comparision as I have never practiced that skill. But is certainly imrpvoes power generation.
iv. Strength - I found my strength increased significantly (even though all my other practices remained constant).
iv. Vitality - This is the main thing I noticed, my required sleep reduced by about 2hrs a night and my recovery time after exercise went right down. You just feel very very good.
(it should be noted I wasn't new to qigong/neigong at the time so it wasn't the 'first flush' of energy work). There are other ways of achieving these things but for me Shi Shui worked well.

It should also be said that it isn't a painful practise (if it is your doing something very wrong) or uncomfortable and is quite an enjoyable. Nowadays (over a decade later) from a Taoist Energetic perspective I find if I skip it for more then a few days my meditation, will power and martial arts suffer - it feels like I have less 'gas' to fuel whatever I am doing.

Hope this helps explain a bit:) .

[GrahamB]

Hi Chris,

Those are an impressive range of benefits, and hard to argue against . Sounds like you've got a good experience from it, and you're not doing it for weird reasons.. whatever those might be

All the benefits you've listed I've found I get from Zhan Zhuang, but there's more than one way to climb the mountain, and each to their own. I consider myself lucky my teacher (whose vitality sounds equal to that of your teacher, despite him being near twice my age) didn't develop it by Shi Shui, so I've never had to do it!

I should add though that my 'never getting sick' thing has completely worn off after having a kid - I'm having the sickest year of my life - viruses, chicken pox (didn't have it as a child, so that was fun), bugs, you name it, I've had it all. Probably from lack of sleep meaning lower immune system, and also less time to practice. That's kids for you - don't have them! They are bad for your health!

best,
G

[Chris Fleming]

"However some of the main benefits I attribute to it are:
i. Body hardening - within 6 months of taking it I could take an ungloved punch to the torso/limbs without bruising or pain from 95% of people.
ii. Health - I hardly ever suffer any illness and haven't visited a doctor since a decade ago when I learn't it (except for injections when travelling) - I a not naturally one of those guys who never gets sick.
iii. Dantien Power - think of squatting monkey with weights! Okay perhaps a poor comparision as I have never practiced that skill. But is certainly imrpvoes power generation.
iv. Strength - I found my strength increased significantly (even though all my other practices remained constant).
iv. Vitality - This is the main thing I noticed, my required sleep reduced by about 2hrs a night and my recovery time after exercise went right down. You just feel very very good.
(it should be noted I wasn't new to qigong/neigong at the time so it wasn't the 'first flush' of energy work). There are other ways of achieving these things but for me Shi Shui worked well."

Sounds good to me!

[shawnsegler]

Those are an impressive range of benefits

I've never hung any weights from my impressive benefits, but you gotta get something good out of it to do stuff like that.

S

[chrislomas]

Yes,
There are many ways of developing these things (I love Zhan Zhuang and seldom skip a day - but I trained it before doing Shi Shui and I think Shi Shui helps speed things up perhaps(?)). Certainly it is only one of a range of options.

As for the kids thing - too late and yes I need all the energy I can get from wherever I can get it. You really learn the qigong value of sleep...
Best
Chris

[Fubo]

Hi Samoobramba,



There's a lot there in the world of martial arts and BKF's system is just one of many ways doing things. If I lived in Slovenia I'd probably also do a little judo/sambo and kickboxing to supplement understanding of CMAs. (In fact BKF encouraged me to study judo years ago, groundfighting and all.)


G

I 2nd the recommendation to get some Slovenian Judo/Sambo in - it would certainly give you some very applicable realistic fighting skills and it's principles (as taught in Kodokan Judo) are in line with IMA principles, so you wouldn't be contradicting your IMA practice.

Good luck.

[Samoobramba]

Anybody has experience with the B.K. Frantzis system? Are the exercises practical? I am interested mainly for practical/useful/essential things (and probably not for the whole system for now). Any suggestion about his exercises?

[Buddy]

Don't tuck your pelvis, don't turn the palms backward, leave your shoulders on the side of your body where they belong, breath into the chest as well.

[Samoobramba]

Are this recommendations from the BKF system or corrections of the BKF system?

[Buddy]

They are my suggestions based on years of teaching the system. I believe it is counter productive (and potentially, or in my case realistically, harmful) to go against the body's natural design.

[lars]

Hi Buddy,

that sounds interesting... Those were exactly the points I noted were weird to me, when I read his book on Qi gong and saw his videos. As I never got taught the system I didnt think more of it.
Especially the shoulders thing. My teacher is very strict on loosening and relaxing the shoulders and chest and most other IMA teachers I have seen as well.
Do you think that some of these things come from his (BKF´s) time with yoga?

[Buddy]

It's difficult to tell.

[Interloper]

I have the possibility to choose between the B.K. Frantzis school and the Mantak Chia school instructor.

I would stay FAR away from the Mantak Chia stuff. Mantak Chia's chi kung has been discussed several times here, and basically the gist of it was that you're probably going to need to get "roto-rootered" by a good acupuncturist if you do that stuff for any length of time.
I usually try hard not to be negative about other teachers, but I've read about too many bad side effects from the Mantak Chia system to trust it.

Interesting view. I've been reading Mantak Chia's (and Juan Li's) book, "The Inner Structure of Tai Chi," and find that it explains very clearly a lot of the body skills that I know, from first-hand experience, do generate great stability and internal power and do not harm the body. I suspect that it's not -what- he does and says to do that is an issue, it's -how- people are misinterpreting and doing it... incorrectly ... that is causing the problems. Including, potentially, people who are instructing classes in his methods, and doing it wrong.

I haven't finished the book yet, but thusfar it is providing cogent descriptions of all of the internal skills I already know and practice, albeit with different exercises than what he offers. I can see how the less experienced person could easily over-torque his legs or hyper-extend his spine if not properly instructed, but I see nothing in Chia's prescribed curriculum of internal practice that would by itself cause injuries or damage to one's body.

Does anyone have any specific descriptions of Mantak Chia's training or teaching regimen and curriculum beyond the general overview he provides in his book? I'm curious as to what and how people are experiencing negative side effects.

One definitely should check out instructors before signing into any such program, and never, ever try to teach yourself from a book or DVD for something this abstract. It's too easy to misinterpret what's being said and done. Instead, those media are useful only as a point of reference for those who are already at least somewhat skilled and conversant in these methods.

My $.02.

[D_Glenn]

Tucking the sacrum shouldn't be a problem for any healthy person, it should actually be beneficial as it opens up mingmen point on the back.

.