the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

wayne hansen wrote:Why do you use wind instead of metal
That’s a Hindu thing not TCM

I am not sure what you mean! Elements of Classical Chinese Medicine (CCM) are often missing from what is called TCM today and therein lies sometimes misinformation that is often missing or appears foreign to those who may not have access to it. I am not a practicing acupuncturist but I will try to link you to a source that you may find comprehensive.
I often (personally) in my yangsheng seminars, where applicable introduce not only elements of seasonal practice of neigong/yangsheng background but add the principle of direction (north, south, east and west) time of day/circadian references (ziwuliuzhu) and Mother/Son elements in certain qigong practices. Some may not apply in current TCM practice but the Mother/Son concept is mandatory for acupuncture skill.

You can google the terms mentioned for better understanding!

I just wondered why you used wind instead of metal
Wind is usually used in the 4 elements outside of Chinese thinking
Never used in the 5 elements of Hsing I
How would wind control wood or produce water
How would it be contrôled by fire
Or be produced by earth
It just doesn’t make sence in the 5 element context

I realized my mistake. Wuxing Five Elements Wood Fire Earth Metal Water! Somehow I typed WInd instead of Fire
Thank you

My mistake as well when I saw wind I thought u used it instead of metal but it was fire

On a tangent, 5 elements as in Musashi book of 5 rings make more sense to me.

These TCM cycles always confuse me.

This is one source:
The 2 basic cycles are Generating cycle and Controlling cycle
https://www.learnreligions.com/five-ele ... es-3183168

Example of Generating/Controlling cycles. See diagram
https://www.tcmworld.org/what-is-tcm/five-elements/

Even cooking has a wuxing (5 element) cycle!

Thanks. have read them a lot and always find them a bit odd.

I think "metal" is part of "earth". very weird that there's no "wind/air".

"void" is a better "5th element" in the scheme of things (pre-scientific "models" of the "Universe" and "Universal laws") imho. Very Taoist.

they make more sense from a martial arts pov, too.

Void and air make no sense in the theory

void is "no mind", "nothingness" or "emptiness". "air" like "move like the wind" or "circularity". "fire", "earth", "water" kind of self explanatory. kind of easy to follow.

no weird cycle like in TCM theory. I love abstract/theory, but that's still too much for me. maybe some day it will finally make sense. Chinese philosophy gets really weird imho

Fine to think that but why mention 5 elements
Didn’t u sat you teach them

wayne hansen wrote:Void and air make no sense in the theory

It doesn't express the interplay of the elements. Each is just a tag or category for an area of focus, not a component in a process.

The five rings has absolutely nothing to do with five element theory, the elements are just a focus tool, kind of like nine palaces

OK
Then don’t mention the 5 elements
It’s like mention the theory of relativity
It either explains a theory or it dosent

They make sense for what they are but it's not as fully fleshed out a system as the wu xing.

I really don't know much about them in that context outside of go rin no sho so I dunno.

Earth is foundation,
Water is tactics,
Fire is strategy,
Wind is comparison to other schools,
Void is basically Wu-wei, having attained the way of strategy to act correctly spontaneously without thought or prejudice.

yea, the fact that it doesn't seem as "fleshed out" is probably why it seems far easier to understand to me. the metaphors can keep going, but always in "KISS" or "ELI5" fashion.

Earth. down to earth. stable. grounded. practical. genuine.
Water. waves crashing. back and forth. counter attacking. flows naturally. fluid. adaptability. (kind of tai chi stereotype)
Fire. warm. hot. angry. attacking. (kind of xingyiquan stereotype)
Wind. elusive. circular. swift. invisible. agility. (kind of baguazhang stereotype)
Void. (kind of all big 3 or maybe yiquan or "no style as style" stereotype)

there is no Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock going on (and why wouldn't Spock always win, lol). very nice.

been doing some standing zz in the mornings lately... it coincided with the change of seasons but was more that I just got done with 6 weeks of running training and decided I wanted a break from running