the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Posted: **Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:18 pm**

roger bu hao wrote:
Fubo -
Thanks that's the kind of info I was wondering about. Sorry about the guilding the lilly
thing but I was trying to say in a nice way that they weren't really disciples at all and that you said that
to beef things up. Hey - that's OK and I am most def not saying that their skills are lacking or that their
teaching under Gen Sun was lacking. I am saying that I don't think Gen Sun was a disciple and that he didn't
ever name any disciples. I could be wrong. I just don't think that there was ever disciple one in the entire
Fu system. I am intensely interested in all things Fu style so I am intensely interested in Gen sun lineage.
There is no debate on the Fu lineage because it is modern history. It is the same as hearing about a tree of
my family that I never knew existed so I want to know more.

Roger,

I didn't say disciple to beef anything up and I don't feel the need to do so - they were disciples of Sun which is why I said that - I don't have any reason to doubt them - seems like you jumped to conclusions about me (and Sun's disciple situation), but it might help to ask first next time. I think the whole disciple/master thing is silly and out dated so it's not really something I would try to beef anything up with.

As for a tree of some of Fu's disciples and their's... http://www.wudangboxing.com/lineage.htm FYI.

Posted: **Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:27 pm**

Among others, some of Sun Baogang's disciples include:
廖國存 (Kenneth Liu)
李孝全 (Patrick H. C. Lee)

Both are teaching in Hong Kong (Kenneth has a video on YouTube somewhere as well).

Posted: **Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:54 pm**

edededed wrote:Among others, some of Sun Baogang's disciples include:
廖國存 (Kenneth Liu)
李孝全 (Patrick H. C. Lee)

Both are teaching in Hong Kong (Kenneth has a video on YouTube somewhere as well).

Patrick Lee is one of my Fu Bagua teachers... he is also the person Demonstrating Sun's Bagua in Sun's book. Do you know Mr. Lee?

Posted: **Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:19 pm**

Fubo wrote:As for a tree of some of Fu's disciples and their's... http://www.wudangboxing.com/lineage.htm FYI.

Nice! I didn't know about that link.

Posted: **Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:35 pm**

No, sorry, I just found his website is all

Posted: **Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:04 pm**

Meeks - wow I haven't seen Victor in a few years - he was not that way last time I saw him. Again look at his Vids
and you will see real Fu style. The thing about him being cut off is not true and has something to do with a rivalry
issue going back to China. Victor is the source of Nick Gracenin's Dragon Palm - just sayin'. Also there is a school up
in Quebec that I visited that follows Victor and they are not too bad.

maybe I've just got high standards.

(later)
nope...just checked him out on youtube. While I do like to think I have a discerning eye, I still hold firm in my "the fu bagua in vancouver is extremely lacking" stance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRI46Y-aZLc

Posted: **Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:13 pm**

meeks wrote:
Meeks - wow I haven't seen Victor in a few years - he was not that way last time I saw him. Again look at his Vids
and you will see real Fu style. The thing about him being cut off is not true and has something to do with a rivalry
issue going back to China. Victor is the source of Nick Gracenin's Dragon Palm - just sayin'. Also there is a school up
in Quebec that I visited that follows Victor and they are not too bad.

maybe I've just got high standards.

(later)
nope...just checked him out on youtube. While I do like to think I have a discerning eye, I still hold firm in my "the fu bagua in vancouver is extremely lacking" stance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRI46Y-aZLc

Owch... that does look.....well....... $:-\$

Posted: **Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:59 am**

hmmm... rereading the post, you mention someone named rick gracenin. so I googled the name and found this on youtube
(rick gracenin bagua master)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EISxEVDJC_E
check out 1:00 to 1:05 - yup. that's how victor does it too.

you're umm... not really presenting anything to argue your case very well, I'm sorry. But I realize (after watching these on youtube) some people on this board have been watching contemporary wushu bagua and assuming that's how deep bagua 'is'.

I'm not 'flaming' anyone. I'm just presenting polite advice

Posted: **Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:34 am**

Meeks - LOL

Fubo - thanks again for info - are they disciples of Fu Style with General Sun?
or is that part of the system?

Fubo - what do you think of Victor's Dragon Palm? Johny Lee's tape that I have
looks very similar. Is Meeks just reacting to Fu style in general or do you
think Victor is Wushu cause Victor isn't a Wushu guy at least not modern Wushu.
I think his form is clear in this vid.

Note - Fu himself was one of the original Wushu officials.

Posted: **Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:08 pm**

roger hao wrote:Meeks - LOL

Fubo - thanks again for info - are they disciples of Fu Style with General Sun?
or is that part of the system?

Fubo - what do you think of Victor's Dragon Palm? Johny Lee's tape that I have
looks very similar. Is Meeks just reacting to Fu style in general or do you
think Victor is Wushu cause Victor isn't a Wushu guy at least not modern Wushu.
I think his form is clear in this vid.

Note - Fu himself was one of the original Wushu officials.

Roger,

I was refering specifically to them being disciples of General Sun in Fu style Bagua, but again, it's not something I really care about.

I haven't seen Victor Fu's or Johnny Lee's Dragon Palm so I can't really comment on either. I can't speak for what Meek is reacting to, but he is the one to ask if you are interested to know.

Posted: **Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:13 pm**

Just got back from the class, and signed up. Talk about a treat, I got there a little early, and Glenn even invited me to learn a little (for free) instead of just watching, but I opted to watch. He started with warm ups, then circle walking, palm changes, and applications. I've also never met anyone as nice as him in my part of the country. Watching him was pretty much worth the visit alone. Not only was he a great teacher (he wouldn't let anyone do anything "wrong" and corrected people in steps that they could understand and grasp). The fact he teaches this class himself was even more reason for me to join.

So far so good, everything I looked for was there, his form was amazing, and the applications were simple and effective for the members of the class.

Posted: **Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:03 pm**

meeks wrote:hmmm... rereading the post, you mention someone named rick gracenin. so I googled the name and found this on youtube
(rick gracenin bagua master)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EISxEVDJC_E
check out 1:00 to 1:05 - yup. that's how victor does it too.

you're umm... not really presenting anything to argue your case very well, I'm sorry. But I realize (after watching these on youtube) some people on this board have been watching contemporary wushu bagua and assuming that's how deep bagua 'is'.

I'm not 'flaming' anyone. I'm just presenting polite advice

I have to say I watched a video on his "applications" and found them quite silly.

Posted: **Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:20 pm**

so you can see what I was referring to. This is why I kept saying 'the Fu style in Vancouver' and I was explicit in pointing that out. It wasn't about 'Fu style'.

Posted: **Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:22 pm**

ParryPerson wrote:
meeks wrote:hmmm... rereading the post, you mention someone named rick gracenin. so I googled the name and found this on youtube
(rick gracenin bagua master)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EISxEVDJC_E
check out 1:00 to 1:05 - yup. that's how victor does it too.

you're umm... not really presenting anything to argue your case very well, I'm sorry. But I realize (after watching these on youtube) some people on this board have been watching contemporary wushu bagua and assuming that's how deep bagua 'is'.

I'm not 'flaming' anyone. I'm just presenting polite advice

I have to say I watched a video on his "applications" and found them quite silly.

Do u mean Victor;s video ?

Posted: **Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:34 pm**

ParryPerson wrote:Hi, I live in Shreveport Louisiana where Johnny Lee a GM that opened "Lee's Martial Arts", this place in the 70's before moving to Dallas to start White Leopard. He left sifu Glenn Guerin to take care of this place. The linage seems to be Fu Zhen Song --> Sun Bau Kang (a general in the Chinese republic, escape to Hong Kong during the civil war) --> Johnny Lee Kwong Ming (moved to Dallas, TX)....and then to Glenn Guerin.

I have known Sifu Lee and Sifu Guerin both for more than 20 years times, and can personally vouch for their expertise in the arts which they teach. Anyone living within reasonable driving distance of either teacher would be foolish not to take advantage of a great opportunity to learn authentic Chinese Martial Arts from such legitimate and experienced instructors.

Additionally, both of these men are very cordial and very generous in their teaching. I have the highest respect for both Sifu Lee and Sifu Guerin, and value their long time friendship greatly. -bow-

Doc Stier

the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

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