the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

You're kind of reminding me of a linguistic theory that holds that the only functional definitions that work are one's that work like families. ie. certain words are "related" to other words but that there are no words at all that specifically mean anything. More like loose associations to ideas.

that would be "inferential role semantics" (IRS), "conceptual role semantics" (CRS), or "procedural semantics," depending on who you're talking to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferential_role_semantics
http://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/faculty/block/papers/ConceptualRoleSemantics.html

and (in my opinion) that's about half of the story... the part about sets of people CALLING sets of things THINGS. the other half would be that there are actually "unified" classes of things in the world, but the main reason that they seem so unified is that our brains tend to coherently cluster them on the basis of perceptual similarities, across inherently variable individuals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concept_learning#Exemplar_Theories_of_Concept_Learning

of course those two halves of the story probably interact in all sorts of crazy ways, giving rise to all sorts of unpredictable consequences, not accounted for by either side in isolation.

categorically defined postures should tend to have more of a basis in the "perceptual kind" side of the coin. when people start making "principle" based distinctions between whole systems (i.e. taiji vs. bagua) it would seem to be much less about perception-based categorization and much more about conceptual role semantics, as you noted.

Correct understanding and application of Nian. By understanding nian you can undermine your opponents center. That is the only real difference between Taiji and the other Chinese arts.

Jay

Affa is probably onto something here, but I'll rephrase it in a simpler way for us non-General Semantics trained guys.

When is a mammal a mammal? Although this category is very useful for a lot of people, for example zoologists and veterinaries, it cannot account for all the observations we make in nature. For example, platypuses have no right to do some of the things they do and I'm sure a lot of zoologists wish the mammal control police would stop them from doing it. Mammals do not exist in nature. They exist in people's heads as a category that allows us to put things into neat little boxes for some thinking purposes we have. That's all.

It simply means that it's impossible to define Taiji in such a way that you will satisfy ALL observations made or all people involved in attempting to define it. It's just a human category. Maps are not the territory, and as soon as you're "talking" about something you're making human categories which are our maps of reality.

The Dao you can speak about is not the real Dao.

Of Yin and Yang, Yin is when you are walking down the stairs in the dark and you are positive you've reached the last step but there is one more and your foot takes a 7 inch drop which takes your whole body with it (falling into emptiness). Yang is when you're going up the stairs in the dark and you think there's no more steps and your foot slams onto the step 7 inchs higher than you expected. Taiji is trying to set up and get the opponent to fall into those same situations.

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Nice contributions here. I like what D Glen just said and Jay from Shanghai.

I'm going to say the 13 postures 'cos no one has thus far. shocking!:D

D_Glenn wrote:Of Yin and Yang, Yin is when you are walking down the stairs in the dark and you are positive you've reached the last step but there is one more and your foot takes a 7 inch drop which takes your whole body with it (falling into emptiness). Yang is when you're going up the stairs in the dark and you think there's no more steps and your foot slams onto the step 7 inchs higher than you expected. Taiji is trying to set up and get the opponent to fall into those same situations.

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Taiji in taijiquan is much less about you being yin and your opponent being yang and more about you understanding yourself. That's why we say such disciplines are "internal" styles.

Yin and Yang (陰陽) discuss a cosmic interplay between substantive and insubstantive, energetic and material. Taiji (太極) is a philosophical term, which ash nothing to do with a specific physical situation like martial arts. For example the "yin yang symbol" in chinese is called the "tai ji picture" (太極圖).

Keep in mind that Taiji Quan (太極拳) is a NAME given to a very famous martial art, thus the name taiji became famous and synonymous in the west with martial arts (particularly those from a certain area and time).

Yang is the husband who fell down the stairs and yin is the wife and taiji is when they get naked and go to bed together.

chicagoTaiJi wrote:Yang is the husband who fell down the stairs and yin is the wife and taiji is when they get naked and go to bed together.

I like that answer.