MaartenSFS wrote:Okay, I think maybe you misunderstood me or I wasn't clear.. In the OP I was talking about determining the focus for your system and I mentioned sparring and wrestling and then my personal situation with fencing. I was not implying that my swordsmanship system is the best way to learn unarmed fighting. I was merely stating that the focus of my swordsmanship system is to get my students to become proficient at fencing and that the entire curriculum is centred around it. That being said, the mechanics for Shuaibeishou are identical in my swordsmanship and unarmed fighting and the mechanics of Zhenjin are the same whether punching or thrusting, so there is great overlap and learning any type of good swordsmanship will greatly enhance your unarmed fighting, I promise you. This is something that really surprised me during my own training. It's not just switching stances. It's not that simple. In the OP I also mentioned my unarmed system and its focus on hand techniques. I'm not sure where the confusion stems from, but I hope that I've cleared it up now.
MaartenSFS wrote:Tonight the Shenfa for Longsword and Rapier fencing were completely different from each other and from what I do. When I tried my hand at Rapier fencing a lot of what I learned was not applicable, even my foundation training. I can't wait to try my hand at other types of weapons.
everything wrote:The weapons/empty hand thing is why FMA and Xingyiquan have a certain appeal. If the shtick is "self defence", weapons at hand ties into this. Pick up a phone, an umbrella, a mug, a pen, a bottle, a frozen ham, whatever. You should be able to do you.
Life is way too short to be a "prepper" though. People want to feel like a badass, but they want to have fun. This sparring seems like a ton of fun.
Marketing wise, it may be hard to find the "messaging" in a crowded market.
Peacedog wrote:For example, this is SGM Vining. He is a legendary retired Delta Operator. He looks like a Sunday school teacher.
Now this is Shrek. Another retired Delta operator.
https://sobtactical.com/about/
Who looks more dangerous?
Which one would you want to learn CQB from and which one would you prefer to have a lecture on force protection in the developing world from?
marvin8 wrote:MaartenSFS wrote:Okay, I think maybe you misunderstood me or I wasn't clear.. In the OP I was talking about determining the focus for your system and I mentioned sparring and wrestling and then my personal situation with fencing. I was not implying that my swordsmanship system is the best way to learn unarmed fighting. I was merely stating that the focus of my swordsmanship system is to get my students to become proficient at fencing and that the entire curriculum is centred around it. That being said, the mechanics for Shuaibeishou are identical in my swordsmanship and unarmed fighting and the mechanics of Zhenjin are the same whether punching or thrusting, so there is great overlap and learning any type of good swordsmanship will greatly enhance your unarmed fighting, I promise you. This is something that really surprised me during my own training. It's not just switching stances. It's not that simple. In the OP I also mentioned my unarmed system and its focus on hand techniques. I'm not sure where the confusion stems from, but I hope that I've cleared it up now.
The mechanics I was referring to are holding the sword with two hands, swinging it (e.g., over your head, etc.), thrusting with head and body exposed, over committing, etc. In your unarmed sparring video, you are in orthodox stance; in your fencing video, you are in southpaw stance, showing different mechanics.
The mechanics for Shuaibeishou that you showed in striking the leaf would generate more whipping power, if you use the kinetic chain: the hips, then shoulders rotate before the arm which I have seen in Tongbei videos.
I look to fencing for their fencing concepts, not power generation. Rapier and dagger or shield mechanics are more applicable to unarmed fighting, than what you showed in your fencing video:MaartenSFS wrote:Tonight the Shenfa for Longsword and Rapier fencing were completely different from each other and from what I do. When I tried my hand at Rapier fencing a lot of what I learned was not applicable, even my foundation training. I can't wait to try my hand at other types of weapons.
The "switching stances" you showed in your sparring video is called "shift punching" which Jack Dempsey, boxers, MMA fighters and others use.
I see more success in marketing fencing, weapons, or system with China story (Peacedog's suggestions), not helping MMA fighters. You might have success marketing as Bruce Frantzis has with the China background.everything wrote:The weapons/empty hand thing is why FMA and Xingyiquan have a certain appeal. If the shtick is "self defence", weapons at hand ties into this. Pick up a phone, an umbrella, a mug, a pen, a bottle, a frozen ham, whatever. You should be able to do you.
Life is way too short to be a "prepper" though. People want to feel like a badass, but they want to have fun. This sparring seems like a ton of fun.
Marketing wise, it may be hard to find the "messaging" in a crowded market.
MaartenSFS wrote:Here's a video of Tongbeiquan, which has a lot of similarities with what I do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU1bhS-SddI.
MaartenSFS wrote: I agree that this stuff is amazing and the power that can generated is scary. I think that so few people have trained in this way that most haven't experienced it and don't take it seriously. Of course I use this stuff is sparring as well.
Bao wrote:Yes, good exercises. Many of these and similar are practiced generally in IMA. Maybe most in Bagua, but also in XY and TJQ. I used to have a few of these and other arm swings as warm up in my classes.MaartenSFS wrote: I agree that this stuff is amazing and the power that can generated is scary. I think that so few people have trained in this way that most haven't experienced it and don't take it seriously. Of course I use this stuff is sparring as well.
Most people don't take it very seriously, not even people who learned them. IME, you need to practice them for quite some time before you can be loose enough to really understand the type of power you can generate with this kind of movement.
MaartenSFS wrote:Here's a video of Tongbeiquan, which has a lot of similarities with what I do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU1bhS-SddI.
MaartenSFS wrote:For example, if 75-80% of Taijiquan is Shuaifa/Qinna and how to counter them, the focus should probably be on gaining those skills and how to use them in wrestling (since Tuishou as it should be practised is way too limiting, in my opinion, to be considered as fighting or wrestling). The teacher should be able to handle themselves quite well in wrestling and use most of these techniques in the curriculum against a fully resisting opponent. The striking aspects can also be taught, but more as additional self-defence techniques when the shit hits the fan.
johnwang wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU1bhS-SddI
I have cross trained the white ape Tongbei when I was yonng. There are so many circular moves that I have never used in sparring. Is Tongbei an effective CMA system? I honest have some doubt on it.
IMO, Tongbei is too circular. WC is too linear. Both are too extreme. The preying mantis is something in between.
Appledog wrote:MaartenSFS wrote:For example, if 75-80% of Taijiquan is Shuaifa/Qinna and how to counter them, the focus should probably be on gaining those skills and how to use them in wrestling (since Tuishou as it should be practised is way too limiting, in my opinion, to be considered as fighting or wrestling). The teacher should be able to handle themselves quite well in wrestling and use most of these techniques in the curriculum against a fully resisting opponent. The striking aspects can also be taught, but more as additional self-defence techniques when the shit hits the fan.
I'd be willing to accept a lot less given today's tai chi environment. If you have a teacher who has an interesting form, half decent qigong and can do push hands properly and well (say, any push hands instructional by name brand teachers) you are already at the 90th percentile of all tai chi players in the world (and this, is only counting the ones who stick with it over their lifetime). This automatically puts you in a special place and is good enough for making progress on your own or finding a good teacher. You cannot find a good teacher right off the bat, unless you are connected or very lucky. For Americans I don't think it is really possible anymore, unless I suppose you're just very lucky. Like a green card lottery.
I really think the biggest problem with people trying to learn Tai Chi is their morality and humility. They get stuck on random concepts and become unteachable. This can happen in good ways and bad ways, sometimes it's not desirable to go with a teacher simply because you are too used to doing things a certain (but good) way too, and it's better that you practice on your own for a while. But even with that you have to come out of it sometime and go find a teacher again.
johnwang wrote:There are so many circular moves that I have never used in sparring. Is Tongbei an effective CMA system? I honest have some doubt on it.
IMO, Tongbei is too circular. WC is too linear. Both are too extreme. The preying mantis is something in between.
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