WHo here trains Muay Thai?

[bailewen]

[to Kurt]

lol. Funny about that jab->hopping hook. I used to really like that one before I ever got into Muay Thai. Picked it up in Hung Gar somehow. I tended to think of it as a crane hook/block varation.

I also must admit, I don't know your number system. We never numbered them. Had some long strings of standard pad combos but we always just either called them out by name or you were expected to know which one to throw by where and how the pads were held. Pad holding is really an art too.

I think it's because the baji elbow (if you mean the "stabbing elbow"/ding zhou") is more of either a folding technique. i(e. your arm or hand is blocked or grabbed and you fold in past it) or it's not an elbow at all. It's a "springy" forearm block against either a haymaker or a round kick where you catch the blow on both forearms and the elbow stabs in as a bonus. "Ding" is actually kind of peripheral to "bao" (embracing) I also learned you have to kind of use a grabbing/hookin entry to destroy the bridge on the way in.

Good point though. I think CMA in general doesn't place enough emphasis on protecting the head. Not sure.

One interesting side note though....he he...my TAIJI form has a Muay Thai style elbow in it.

Rear hand finger jab-->lead hand parry as you lean back -->full step forward with a downward elbow while bringing the rear hand up to protect your face.

p.s. 'sup mon?

[Kurt Robbins]

(I-mon): Totally agree the dynamic of knees and elbows thrown in with wrestling and throws is my new heaven.

Omar,
The elbows that Wutan showed me from xiao baji and Da Baji (also Liue Da Kai, Lien Dwaun Chien) worked from bridging then dropping in the elbows to the ribs. The elbow in the opening of Da Baji is supposed to work off of trapping and shocking the arm with the shoulders and back of the neck. Is that what you have Omar.

I also think that in Baji armour can be blamed for the wide open postures (weight bearing) .

[bailewen]

...worked from bridging then dropping in the elbows to the ribs.

Learned that one too but that is not how it is applied in the dui da. . . I guess it fits for Xiaobaji. The primary use, as I learned it, is more about using the forearms to block powerfull, circular, horizontal attacks to the upper body and I suppose is kind of like you described.

http://picasaweb.google.com/Bajibomber/ ... #slideshow

[Kurt Robbins]

The diagrams show something different than what I was doing.
In the WuTan two man form the applications are really different I always wanted to learn the Baji that comes from China.
WuTan Baji in my opinion has emphasis on forms and structure and no emphasis on practical techniques and involves no sparring - you kind of have to reverse engineer the system. I make my stance a lot tighter and so my foot work is more dynamic. I use Muay Thai to reverse engineer my Baji - I feel there are similarities between the two systems or at least MT lends a practicality to Baji.

Our number system is 1)Jab 2) Right cross 3)left hook 4) Right Hook 5)left upper cut 6) Right uppercut 7)left side thrust kick 8) Right front thrust kick 9) (Switch step) left MuayThai round house (low, middle High) 10) Right Muay Thai round house

Right sides are evens - left sides are odds, so you combine odds and evens; 3 2 3 or 1 2 3 6 and the jab you can repeat 1 1 2 3 2
each set has variations to the body hooks to ribs and liver - Low jabs etc.

[kreese]

Is MT basically a form of kickboxing, or is there something different about its strategy, training methods, technical aspects, tactics, etc. that set it apart?

[I-mon]

It's a form of kickboxing - from thailand! it has a lot of cool training methods that i haven't come across in any other arts - most notably the "neck wrestling" we've been talking about, and a plethora of nasty elbows and knees, and of course the thai roundhouse. also some cool cultural flavours like magical protection, crazy pipes and drums playing during the fights to get the fighters charged up (meant to simulate the feeling of a battlefield), and points for fearlessness! fighters are supposed to be brave and not dance around avoiding their opponents, tiring them out or making the fight go the distance to win on points - you're supposed to get in there and knock them the fuck out!


OK kurt, omar, guys, have any of your schools or trainers taught the "Ram Muay"? what about the classic muay thai bobbing step?

how many types of knees? we trained straight up the centre and diagonally up into the ribs - another of my favourite training drills was like the "running man" (one of MC Hammer's famous dance moves) on the heavy bag, doing the diagonal knees on alternate sides one after the other, with both hands holding the bag.

any other particularly awesome drills unique to Muay Thai?

[bailewen]

Don't know what "Ram Muay" is but we did practice the bobbing step and yes, coach did have various "tatoos of invincibility" on his body. He taught seated meditation along with what basically amounted to a kind of daoist type alchemy. Came from a Buddhist tradition but same basic concept.

We never really did much switch stepping. Instead we were more into stepping forward and to the side. Not saying NO switch step, just not emphaised. The bobbing front leg is because the minute you put weight on it you can get it kicked so step lightly. I tend to think of the bobbing step as the main thing to differentiate Thai Muay Thai fro American Muay Thai. American's like their boxing footwork too much to give it up completely.

[I-mon]

Ram Muay is the dance traditionally done before the fight. dunno how old the tradition is - could be a recent thing - or really what the whole deal is, but it's got some good movements in it (there's not one standard dance that everyone does but there seem to be many standard elements) and may even at one point have been a kind of neigong?

i agree about the bobbing step, also the open guard. i wonder what the hand striking methods were like in the ancient muay thai, before the influence of modern boxing?

[neijia_boxer]

I train in muay thai because its very hard work, more than i experienced in any chinese martial arts school that claim to do fighting and san shou/san da..

[Kurt Robbins]

We have three knees and seven elbows
Knees:
Thrusting knee (coming up at a 45 degree andle and then 3inches before impact thrusting forward)
Side knee the leg goes all the back behind you then comes to the side with the knee coming from the side and impacting from the flank. You use this when you have someon in the clinch and twist their head into the incoming knee
Round knee gathering is circular, used for tight clinch.
Also flying knees

Elbows:
upper elbow
left elbow
right elbow
ducking uppercut elbow
twisting back elbow
Flying downward elbow (hitting the top of the head)

[I-mon]

what's the difference between the upper elbow and the ducking uppercut elbow?

[Kurt Robbins]

All MT round house kicks we do we always step off to an angle.
When we switch from right to a left 9, we step out at an angle with the left leg and bring in the right foot next to the left and hit the 9 (Muay Thai round house) - That's a hard 9, but for a inside nine we don't switch step just twist in off the right leg.
South paws just reverse the sides 10's become 9's and so on.

[Kurt Robbins]

The ducking elbow we drop our height by parallelling our thighs like a horse stance, blocking hand on the forehead and striking elbow out to the side with the palm close to in front of the belly and then step up thrusting the elbow aimng under the chin. Your body is to the side so your oppent and you form a T (from over head view) and your oppenents chest is the top of the T and your chest is the base of the T.
Upper elbow is just like the Baji elbow in Xiao Baji, your not ducking under, like the ducking elbow.

[neijia_boxer]

Our number system is 1)Jab 2) Right cross 3)left hook 4) Right Hook 5)left upper cut 6) Right uppercut 7)left side thrust kick 8) Right front thrust kick 9) (Switch step) left MuayThai round house (low, middle High) 10) Right Muay Thai round house

We have something similar in our MT boxing system, except for hands we have:
1. jab
2. cross
3. left hook- head level
4. level change-left hook to body/liver
5. left/lead uppercut
6. level change- right hook to body-stomach or kidney
7. rt./Rear uppercut

[Kurt Robbins]

This guy blocks like we do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E8Lrm1J3c8
I also forgot downward elbows. (verticle)