circle walking and standing

[shawnsegler]

There's only 2 ways to manipulate the soft tissue of the body.

Stretching as in Yoga and most "standing" practices and Twisting as in Bagua and circle walking.

S

[Bob]

Besides circle walking and stationary zhan zhuang, you can also hold many of the postures [8 mother palms +] rotate and twist the posture--in some, you can hold the rotated posture and count relaxed breaths.

An Introduction to the Daoyin Practices of Yin Fu Bagua

The universe is a macrocosm of inter-connected relationship, each person is a microcosm of the universe. To understand the universe, one must study oneself; to understand oneself, one must study the universe.” The Yi Jing, or Book of Changes, enlightens this, and the art of Bagua manifests it through martial arts, medicine, and internal cultivation (daoyin). While its martial arts were famous, and its medicine kept secret, the true core of Bagua was daoyin. Through daoyin, the martial artist attained mental strength and physical agility; and the medical practitioner developed deep health and body awareness.

Daoist by nature but influenced by Buddhism, the amount and variety of internal practices within Yin Style Bagua are staggering. In this seminar, Andrew Nugent-Head lays out the theories of daoyin within Yin Style Bagua and explains the most famous exercises, with walk-through demonstrations and Q&A. Intellectually and physically challenging, this seminar is presented in a fun, up-beat manner, covering how Yin Style Bagua practitioners explore Pre and Post Heaven existence, understand illness, treat patients, and develop powerful bodies, all by understanding the internal self and thus the external world.

•1st Hour: Introduction & Basic Theory •2nd Hour: Martial Daoyin–The Lion, Dragon & Rooster Postures

•3rd Hour: The Eight Storing Qi & Developing Sensitivity Exercises •4th Hour: The Eight Healing Sounds Practices

•5th Hour: The Shaking System & the Luohan Patting Practices •6th Hour: Daoyin & Breathing Practices

This seminar is available as a 3 DVD set from our store here.

This seminar is NCCAOM PDA Pending for 5 PDA points, for information, click here.

This seminar is California CEU Pending.

In particular see clip 2:

Daoyin in Martial Development 59 minutes

http://traditionalstudies.org/Internal_ ... on_Welcome
_____________________________________________________________________________________
DVD#21022 Bagua Chi Kung Double DVD
Secrets of the Dragon
Jason Tsou
This Double DVD gives an outstanding Chi Kung series specially adapted for Bagua Zhang students. Jason Tsou, another top teacher from the Liu Yun Chiao lineage, shows a rare example of Chuan Lin (Yin Fu) Bagua through the Gong Bao Tien branch. This Chi Kung incorporates five-element theory with the eight animals and the nine palaces. Each of the key movements are performed at three levels of complexity (San Tsai) with detailed instruction for breathing, posture and intent. This perfectly dovetails with the Internal Palms DVD from Adam Hsu, another Liu graduate.

http://www.plumpub.com/sales/dvd/dvdcoll_baguayinfu.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwxlkWI4 ... ideo_title

[nicklas]

Tom Biso doing a quick walk trough of bagua standing postures:

[Bob]

I should have given a bit of an explanation for my post above. I don't think it is an either/or situation--circle walking or zhan zhuang or even an and/or. It is really a range of training which also includes variations on the zhan zhuang i.e. stationary and also moving postures in a line but with substantial twisting. In addition to this basic methods, one might also employ weighted training. There is a real big menu to choose from.

[Peacedog]

Traditionally speaking circle walking and standing are considered the two most reliable ways of generating power using the body. The oft mentioned and rarely seen traditional taoist circle walking being one such example and the posture work of the yogic/Buddhist systems being another.

Both work fasciae tissue, but standing does it in tension and circle walking does it using torque. So it makes sense that both would have inter-related but different effects. Additionally, according to my chiropractor soft tissue begins to remould itself after being in place for at least 20 minutes, so that is another reference point to support the issue of extended practice (more than 20 minutes). One of my teachers often pointed out to me that holding posture for less than 20 minutes was largely a waste of time. Granted this individual held posture for hours at a time when practicing seriously. This person was also the strongest martially of my teachers.

I never got much out of circle walking from the baguazhang practices I learned. That said the, admittedly little, ziranmen walking I learned was a totally different situation.

Circle walking seems to positively impact your speed, throughput of power and greatly enhances your ability to take a hit.

Everyone I know who spends serious time on this can generate a spontaneous speed of movement that is amazing to see in person. I once grabbed several pieces of paper out of the air when my boss dropped them in the office before they hit the ground. Others have mentioned baguazhang or ziranmen practitioners who blurred when fighting. The hit taking ability of baguazhang practitioners is legendary.

Holding posture appears to improve overall power, whole body movement, durability and removes tension from the body. The durability and health benefits of holding posture are legendary as well. I once walked away from a canopy that collapsed 10m above the ground. Additionally, if I am sitting in a comfortable position, casual observers have occasionally mentioned that I sit with a stillness that is unnerving to others.

I would say that in general walking practices require more time to generate an effect from than holding posture.

[Sasa]

I would say that in general walking practices require more time to generate an effect from than holding posture.

As a TCC practitioner, Zhan Zhuang standing for me is a must. Not a day passes without it. I agree that it is sometimes boring, sometimes body aches but it is very beneficial. I was always attracted to BGZ but my fellow friend teacher lives too far away for continuous practice. Maybe one day i will join the circle walk.

Regarding time in ZZ i follow simple rule - do it while it is comfortable and a bit more. No need to overdo it. And sometimes i do

[C.J.W.]

I never got much out of circle walking from the baguazhang practices I learned. That said the, admittedly little, ziranmen walking I learned was a totally different situation.
.

Care to elaborate on how ziranmen walking is different from circle walking?

[C.J.W.]

To me, circle walking is the key to developing a very unique quality of Bagua -- the ability to utilize angular momentum and rate of change in vector for fighting.

[Mello]

I never got much out of circle walking from the baguazhang practices I learned. That said the, admittedly little, ziranmen walking I learned was a totally different situation.
.

Care to elaborate on how ziranmen walking is different from circle walking?

+1

[nicklas]

Is this ai dang bu? (1.20 in to the clip)

[nicklas]

Hmmm ok. May be this becomes OT if we mix in ZiRanMen but it would be nice to get a discussion going on benefits, what practice develop what skills and so on...

I really like Tom Bisios post on his blog:
http://www.newyorkinternalarts.com/blog/?p=143

Ding shi or “fixed posture” Ba Gua is one of the most important aspects of Ba Gua training. Some say it is the starting and ending point of Ba Gua practice. Ding shi is the natural compliment to zhan zhuang (stake standing). While zhan zhuang emphasizes internal movement within external stillness, in ding shi, one attends to the internal stillness within the external movement.

When i speak about circle walking I really mean dingshibazhang. (Even if Tom Bisio and i comes from the same "line of" Liang bagua we do them in a different order... i took the freedom and rearranged them in the order i learned them: http://www.sthlmwushu.se/blog/?p=1248) The two first are the most important, usually (when i did bagua on regular basis) i did 64 circles in both directions with Downward Sinking Palm and then 64 circles in each direction of Heaven Holding Palm. Then the other 6 I focused on the change between the positions maybe doing 4-8 circles per palm and if the change did't feel smooth and right i did another set of the same position. Finishing of with maybe 64 circles of Millstone Pushing Palm if it felt good.

After doing this, even in the middle of winter in beijing (or in sweden =) you dont need glows and you build up a heat that prepares you for the rest of the practice. In winter you can usually see heat steaming from your hands even if you are basically holding them and your upper body still. (in winter you need a hat so the heat dont disappear through your head. There is stories about people being able to close the "top gate".. but.. hmmm...)

I have already said that i feel like the two most important factors you learn from BaGua circle walking, for fighting, wich you dont learn from standing gong is foot work and force/power while moving, but you also learn continuous power.

For health (its really hard to separate health/fighting because if you dont have health how can you fight? =) i find the circle walking be a perfect qigong set. Stimulating a healthy qi flow (xiao zhou tian and while moving automatically stimulating the whole circulation system) The only thing you have to be focusing on is the three "push" (base of palm, top of head and tip of toung), the three "lifts" (pelvic floor, center of palm and ehh i forgot =) and the three circles (arms/chest, hou kou and eyes)

Twisting the palms and doing tangnibu really strengthen the legs and arms and they becomes heavier and stronger. Some people say the tendons becomes thicker and bone density becomes higher... I dont know =) i have a hard time believing that.. what i know is that my shins and arms become much tougher and during sparring with other persons a clash of shins that i didnt notices sent people to the floor twisting in pain. (could be nerve endings that get affected, could be angles you put you arms/legs by default that makes then stronger i dont know or just plain luck, again and again =)

And of course there is the cardio training you do by walking. I think that walking is the perfect training for your heart if you want a heart that is strong and can work for a long time. This making circle walking the perfect longevity training =)

[Peacedog]

I was looking through old posts and noticed I had failed to reply...hope this is okay to resurrect such an old thread.

Let me start by saying that I had just a touch of exposure to Ziranmen. I am certainly not an expert.

First, the power of ziranmen is less bagua and more xing yi in my experience.

All of the movements generated a pumping sensation along the spine that I never got with ba gua.

The footwork went heel toe for the most part versus the kind of gliding footwork I had seen with ba gua.

The effect seemed to generate some kind of expanding tension throughout the body. The force seemed to press out from the core through the arms and hands up top and the legs screwed into the ground. It was a unique sensation in movement to say the least.

My teacher was extremely specific regarding body position and what all of this accomplished.

Afterwards even if doused in sweat I would feel somewhat high or energized, particularly through the chest. I never felt that way with ba gua.

[D_Glenn]

I was looking through old posts and noticed I had failed to reply...hope this is okay to resurrect such an old thread.

No problem at all. I'm actually glad you did because you saved me the trouble of having to go searching for this - circle walking in Ziranmen (Ai Dang Bu).

In Quanzhen Daoist Cultivation practices incorporated into the martial arts (see Song Dynasty Theory thread in the Distillery), Zhan Zhuang (standing staked) only achieves stage 1. You have to start Xing Zhuang (moving staked) to begin stage 2 and so on, and IME Circle Walking is the most efficient way to go about practicing Xing Zhuang.

As was previously pointed out in this thread - in my/our style of Baguazhang (and others apparently) one needs to practice both Standing Postures (Zhan Zhuang) and Circle Walking (Xing Zhuang) as while Circle Walking also continues to develop one's Dantian it doesn't do it quickly enough. There's a rough guideline that it would take 2 hours of circle walking to achieve the same thing as 1 hour of Standing/ Zhan Zhuang but no amount of just only 'Standing' will achieve what comes from Circle Walking/ Xing Zhuang.

Sean Wood on this forum has trained ziranmen circle walking to some extent and might chime in.

This article by Australian teacher Liu Deming goes into more detail about ziranmen circle walking:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/26928084/Ziranmen-Article

So called ‘step’ training is most often performed in a circle. The most basic circle walking step is the Ai Dang Bu. This step is performed in a low legged crouch with hips sunk and the pelvis raised, and with the lower back relaxed (also known as ‘sitting in the chair’). The feet tread forward and around the circle ‘like a drill’ meaning that there is emphasis on grounding the foot, toe to heel, with downward pressure placed progressively through the arch of the foot and through the ankle. In each step the tip of the leading toe must follow the line of the circle and the ankle joint must remain completely stable (no lateral movement) throughout the shifting of weight.

A typical upper body drill to combine with the Ai Dang Bu is the Nei Quan Shou (矮档步内 圈手). The inner circle is created by rotation of the arms, as if the hands are turning a large wheel that is held out from the chest and at right angles to the body. The ‘inside’ hand rises from the chest, past the mouth and curves upward and away from the body, turning into the ‘outside’ hand that pulls down and toward the abdomen (Dan Tian 丹田) and chest. As one arm works the inside hand, the other hand works the outside hand, turning over and over a 8

circle without end or beginning. The step and hand movements are combined such that the forward step is synchronised with the outward moving hand on the same side of the body. The intention is to combine the Yi, Qi and Li of the fist and foot, so that they gather as one, both working like a wheel to propel you body forward. The necessary focus of Yi during circle walking is characterised as, ‘Body like the curve of a bow, hands shooting like arrows and feet sinking like drills’.

As well as building the appropriate physical conditioning for Zi Ran Men combat that I have discussed, the Ai Dang Bu is a powerful form of Qi Gong. From a Traditional Chinese Medicine perspective, repeated practice opens up the meridians in the entire body, especially in the chest and torso. This disperses the heart fire and brightens the eyes. Hence the final focus of Ai Dang Bu is ‘Eyes like shooting stars’, where the vision is clear and unflinching. In practice, the focus is upon relaxing your bodies Qi so that is naturally sinks to the Dan Tian where the mind should remained calmly focussed. The front of your body becomes like a well or gently flowing waterfall, while the back of the body becomes like a flexible ball.

According to legend, when Du Xin Wu started his training with Dwarf Xu, Master Xu instructed him to walk the circle (Ai Dang Bu Nei Qian Shou) and nothing more. After months of this training, Du Xin Wu finally asked, “I have been walking this circle for some time now, what am I doing this for?” Dwarf Xu answered “It is for everything. It is Qi Gong for your health and longevity. Is is Gong Fu for your fighting skill.” Observers at the 1928 Nanjing martial arts competition report that when Master Du performed the Ai Dang Bu Nei Qian Shou for the crowd, he moved so quickly that his body seemed a blurred shade while his eyes remained clear and solid.

Initially, Ai Dang Bu practice may be uncomfortable, as the body clears its fire. The next stage is the purification of the Qi and the sinking of fire into the water of the Dan Tian. The body’s movements during this stage of practice become light and almost effortless. In the final stage, after a long period of practice, Gong Fu is finally achieved and the Qi proliferates through the entire body. Enormous amounts of internal strength and power (jin 劲) are generated and the body reacts as previously described, with total unity and freedom. The whole body now becomes ‘the eye’, sensing the opponent regardless of his line of attack and seamlessly moving from offence to defence with devastating speed.

Achieving heightened awareness is also the subject of Zi Ran Men lore. It is said that Du Xin Wu was forever testing the skill of Dwarf Xu, by launching surprise attacks on his Master. Some of these attacks were said to be bold and precocious, sometimes while the master was asleep, sometimes with a weapon, and on one occasion dangerously near a cliff when Dwarf Xu was not paying attention. However the young Du Xin Wu never got the better of his master and was, more often than not, on the receiving end of fast retribution for his attacks.

Beginners should be conservative in their approach to Ai Dang Bu training. Initially, the hips should not be sunk too low when attempting to step, to preserve the knees and ankles. Everything else should proceed naturally, in accordance with the main principle of Zi Ran Men training. Hence the breathing should be natural, inhaling and exhaling through the nose, and the length of practice determined by what feels appropriate to the individual. Like the experience of taking for a brisk walk or a jog, Ai Dang Bu is a little like ‘getting in the zone’, where the body starts to carry itself thoughtlessly. One should not expect to experience extraordinary feelings or experiences when attempting circle walking for the first time.

.

[jjy5016]

I read about a practice by one of the last indoor students of Wang Changzhai, who is located out on Long Island, who advocated exercising first, for about 20 minutes as I recall, and then doing standing. I have tried it and I find I feel more charged up and energized after I stand. I misplaced the book, but I'm looking for it. Any thoughts on that?

Not sure if you are talking about Wang Xiang Zhai of yiquan or not. But in WXZ did teach a warmup exercise to do before standing. It involved shaking the body up and down, almost bouncing for several minutes. Wang also recommended regular walking after doing standing for the same amount of time as the standing session.

As for the disciple on Long Island would you happen to know his name?

[Patrick]

Wang also recommended regular walking after doing standing for the same amount of time as the standing session.

Do you have a quote for that or did you get that from your teacher/s?