Baguazhang Body. Taijiquan Body. Xingyiquan Body.

[Far7anR]

So what are the differences between the three? Do they refer to different attributes being developed or different skills? Or are they referring to the wiring of fighting method? Are they interchangeable?

[AllanF]

I personally no longer think in terms of Bagua/Xingyi/Taiji body, for me there is only the IMA body! One body fits all!

[Daniel]

Or if it´s a military IMA body, "one body almost fits all".


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

[johnwang]

If you can beat the shit out of your opponent, you have good body, otherwise, you don't.

[wiesiek]

yes Mr W.!
names don`t hit back

[fisherman]

If you can beat the shit out of your opponent, you have good body, otherwise, you don't.

Yet another one for the collection of awesome JW quotes!

IMO, the body is the same. It is the different intention that sets them apart.

[beegs]

i disagree that they are all the same

every art has methods just like every sport has methods and training focus will differ with each art, so anatomically of course its same body but whats developed is different in some areas.

a wrestler in freestyle wrestling will develope different body than a bjj guy will for example as they will put more emphasis on different areas which will influence power and stance and methods used in each art

[Josealb]

i disagree that they are all the same

every art has methods just like every sport has methods and training focus will differ with each art, so anatomically of course its same body but whats developed is different in some areas.

a wrestler in freestyle wrestling will develope different body than a bjj guy will for example as they will put more emphasis on different areas which will influence power and stance and methods used in each art

Would you care to explain the difference between the bagua body, the xingyi body and the taiji body? any examples?

[Daniel]

Yes, the three styles will create different bodies.

However, once a practitioner goes deeply enough into one of them, the differences grow less. There will still be a slight difference in body and energy and mind between someone who specializes in Taiji, Xingyi or Bagua. And there should be. Otherwise it´s likely they just have blended training too much between different styles instead of manifesting one fully before cross-training.

At a certain level, you can also shift your intent and create the other bodies - but only to a certain extent. Your main style will still be the larger influence on your body-structure, mind, and view of reality itself.


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

[johnwang]

you can also shift your intent and create the other bodies ...

If you have developed all 3 bodies then how much time do you need to switch between bodies? Can you switch from one body to another body in combat speed? Will you be able to change your body as fast as an octopus changes color?

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/vid ... eding.html

[NoSword]

Agreed with Daniel's points. The ability to change the quality of one's body instantaneously, through the use of intent, is the whole point of these arts.

Mostly, I think the difference is a question of "threshold" -- how much incoming force you're prepared to ground before you change your structure. If you were to draw a spectrum from ice to vapor, you might have xingyi on one end and Wu style taiji on the other. That's just a question of your natural "resting" structure, however. The ability to change state in response to circumstances is a basic IMA skill, no matter what art you practice.

Also, with regards to taiji, my observation is that there are probably greater differences within the art -- from style to style, lineage to lineage and practitioner to practitioner -- than there are between it and xingyi/bagua.

AK

[Daniel]

you can also shift your intent and create the other bodies ...

If you have developed all 3 bodies then how much time do you need to switch between bodies? Can you switch from one body to another body in combat speed? Will you be able to change your body as fast as an octopus changes color?

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/vid ... eding.html

It´s more like shifting between different tools when building a house. If you actually are using them, you don´t consciously shift between them - that´s for training. In real life, you change automatically depending on the situation. Again, everybody will of course have a primary style that shapes their mind, body and reactions. If seriously pressed or shocked, they tend to revert to this first.


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

[middleway]

I think they are all the same to a degree in that all three arts use the same sort of body structures and connections to absorb and project force etc

However i think that each art has a slightly different development process.

For instance they may all train:
- Major body lines
- Linking the limbs to the torso
- Dan Tien development
- Use of Kwa
- Dang Jin
etc etc

However just like some sportsman may develop the same sort of overall body the focus on their specific area of expertise will mean certain areas of the body will be developed to a greater degree.

an art like TaiJi may develop the Dang to a greater degree than Ba Gua or Xing Yi ... Ba Gua may develop the Spiral lines to a greater degree than TaiJi ..... XingYi may develop the side connections and Dan Tien to a greater degree than Ba Gua ... etc etc

Of course Ba Gua guys will say this isn't true, Xing Yi guys will disagree also and Taiji guys may well disagree as well but that's the nature of loving one art.

The main difference appears in how the body is utilized in combat, this is partly due to the Intent of the system (mind training) and partly due to how the body is trained to respond (training of overall responses and how this is built). Of course there are still a core set of similarities such as:

Recycling opponents force
Use of gravity
sensitivity to change etc etc etc

But practically if working from a straight punch to the face the bodies reaction to the incoming force will be different for each art.
-Ba gua body will naturally turn around the incoming force
- xing Yi body will naturally angle towards the force
- Taiji body will naturally absorb and lead the force.

Its interesting to really go for a guy from each of these arts ... you can CLEARLY see how their body method training linked to the overall outlook influences their response.

Cheers
Chris

[C.J.W.]

In the past, I've corrsponded with a very skilled IMAist in Taiwan who's also a Physics teacher. He has a simple explanation regarding the differences between Taiji and Xingyi's fundamental body usage:

Taiji -- changing the opponent's kinetic energy to your potential energy, and returning it back to him in the form of kinetic energy.

Xingyi -- returning the opponent's kinetic energy to him by the means of action force equals reaction force.

[Daniel]

Interesting posts, guys. The three do have very different views of reality, and that leads to different views in dealing with power. One thing that I find fascinating is how Xingyi almost can nullify incoming force without externally yielding, while Bagua has the nifty ability to almost completely remove inertia in the practitioner due to the training.


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.